Asrd

[MMike]

 

You are an idiot.

 

I know you are but what am I?

[Mobil 254]

I rest my case.

[MMike]

I rest my case.

 

Touche

[Elvis]

Perhaps I am old school, but I guess I am more familiar with Webster's than I am of the Urban dictionary.

 

I'm old school as well. That's why Google is my best friend.

 

When in doubt "Google" it

[MMike]

Union fun fact:

 

The Bell plant in Mirabel is not unionized. (Obviously the ones in Texas are).

 

Go figure.

[rocksteady]

An opinion from the other side of the fence here....

 

As a "customer" of the helicopter industry, when utilizing aircraft in fire fighting operations, I expect the concept of a "professional pilot"....I am NOT a pilot, so I am not going to tell you how to do your job...I may ask you to do a certain task, but if it is too hazardous, from your perspective....SAY SO !!!!

 

Safety starts with you having the ability so say no to a mission. You are the "pilot in command"...to me that means you make the ultimate decision. End of story....Don't continue with the mission if its making your *** pucker..Shut it down and have a face to face with the supervisor (helco, air branch director, whatever)....

 

Believe it or not, we like to work as a team with the pilots and rely on their knowledge, skills and abilities to get the job done.....

 

Since you are not speaking in details, I can't respond to your concerns, however I am definitely interested in knowing them, so that I can take the concerns/learnables back to BC to my organization, as well as just for my own knowledge, how to better manage aircraft, and keep pilots and carriers safe and happy......

 

This is my 2nd tour on the Fort Mac Fire and want to say that I have flown with a slew of pilots here and have had no issues. They have been accomodating/professional/co-operative and most have been great to share the **** pit with.....

 

Sorry to hear you had issues, but I can't see where a union would make it any better...Your carrier CEO/OPS chief could always have a coffee and a chat with the provincial air co-ordinator to see about getting some issues resolved......Just my opinion, riding in the seat beside the driver...

 

Good job guys/gals...We do appreciate you....Maybe just don't tell you enough...

[pilot5]

An opinion from the other side of the fence here....

 

As a "customer" of the helicopter industry, when utilizing aircraft in fire fighting operations, I expect the concept of a "professional pilot"....I am NOT a pilot, so I am not going to tell you how to do your job...I may ask you to do a certain task, but if it is too hazardous, from your perspective....SAY SO !!!!

 

Safety starts with you having the ability so say no to a mission. You are the "pilot in command"...to me that means you make the ultimate decision. End of story....Don't continue with the mission if its making your *** pucker..Shut it down and have a face to face with the supervisor (helco, air branch director, whatever)....

 

Believe it or not, we like to work as a team with the pilots and rely on their knowledge, skills and abilities to get the job done.....

 

Since you are not speaking in details, I can't respond to your concerns, however I am definitely interested in knowing them, so that I can take the concerns/learnables back to BC to my organization, as well as just for my own knowledge, how to better manage aircraft, and keep pilots and carriers safe and happy......

 

This is my 2nd tour on the Fort Mac Fire and want to say that I have flown with a slew of pilots here and have had no issues. They have been accomodating/professional/co-operative and most have been great to share the **** pit with.....

 

Sorry to hear you had issues, but I can't see where a union would make it any better...Your carrier CEO/OPS chief could always have a coffee and a chat with the provincial air co-ordinator to see about getting some issues resolved......Just my opinion, riding in the seat beside the driver...

 

Good job guys/gals...We do appreciate you....Maybe just don't tell you enough...

 

 

Rocksteady

 

I appreciate your candor and wanting to improve things so in keeping with your efforts I have one very important recommendation as follows..

 

Extend the same professional respect to the pilot that you yourself would like... If you have a performance or safety issue or anything else at all that is annoying give the pilot the professional respect to ask him or her first about the issue before speaking with the company...That simple. If the pilot cannot adjust or assist in the matter next ask him or her speak with their superior to see if it can be rectified.. Then and only then if a satisfactory resolution can not be had then take it up the chain of command.

 

I understand thoroughly the human desire to want to feel important but when it comes to keeping a good working relationship between aircrew and the guy or gal up in front or crews respect must be a 2 way street. This business of picking the fly crap out of the pepper at every opportunity as many government people do is no way to create that bond of confidence and positive working relationship, Most issues can be resolved on the spot without taking it up the chain of command.

 

Thanks

 

P5

[rocksteady]

P5...So by reading between the lines here, maybe right or wrong....It would appear that a passenger (customer) had an issue of some sorts had an issue with a pilot/aircraft/carrier and rather than just working it out, they went straight to the top and stirred the poo pot...

 

Not a great way to establish a good working relationship between players on the same team....

 

I agree with you on the discussions between pilots and customers before going to the carrier head office...

[Jamhands]

In my understanding of unions, especially pilot unions, the intent is to represent pilots as a group and negotiate labour contracts with the management of the company they work for. Now I apologize for another "my old man says..." story, but being the son of an airline pilot I've been force fed a lot of the union doctrine. What I've determined, is that it polarizes the entired company into an us vs. them scenario which at the end of the day seems to hurt everybody.

 

Furthermore, ASRD is not the management of a company we work for. They are a customer, and as a customer, does it not mean if they don't like the job you're doing, they shouldn't have to use you. However, they do NEED to use helicopters so it is their interest as Rocksteady pointed out to keep us happy and safe. I don't claim to be very experienced in this industry with just four years involved, but the logic behind a union representing pilots to customers doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. How do you prevent entire companies from obstaining from the union and disregarding the union or associations decisions and going to work while everyone else is parked?

 

To me the nature of our business doesnt lend itself to a pilot's or engineer's union but to an association of companies to highlight our concerns. Which as it turns out we do have, so perhaps more energy should be given to that. More importantly, as a helicopter pilot you are the sole representative of the company in many cases and in charge of the flying you do, so a lot of the responsibility lies with the individual to turn down unsafe work. Am I being naieve and too simplistic here?

[pilot5]

P5...So by reading between the lines here, maybe right or wrong....It would appear that a passenger (customer) had an issue of some sorts had an issue with a pilot/aircraft/carrier and rather than just working it out, they went straight to the top and stirred the poo pot...

 

Not a great way to establish a good working relationship between players on the same team....

 

I agree with you on the discussions between pilots and customers before going to the carrier head office...

 

 

Exactly!

 

If we are recognized as professionals and are hired to do a professional job then allow us to do that and extend the professional respect. But time after time and I know many not a few that this has happened to. The difference is that for the most part the cost to litigate is huge! Who has that kind of cash on hand? Call the labor board... don't bother the law is in the side of the employer... HAC.?..

 

Any way my point is that there is no recourse.. no mechanism to protect your employment. And no representation at All! To suggest otherwise would be akin to willful blindness. And if you try to defend your self for any reason this is viewed as a bad attitude because you are not prepared to accept an unlubricated anal stretching.... The industry i management level is dysfunctional at best... The majority of management are in the position they are in not due to interpersonal management skills or training but wholly based on an accepted tradition to keep quiet and tow the line and not piss off the accountable executive... another reason SMS is doomed...(but that’s a different subject)

 

Bottom line! Instead of the majority of participants in the industry being of professional grade and gentleman it could be better defined as a group dominated by a very narrow minded mentality akin to a grade level 10 exercise in bullying!. Is there a solution? require aptitude testing? Raise the education requirements to a post secondary level prior to licensing? Maybe a combination of both...

 

But this is what we are dealing for the most part with and its no wonder that the whole point about representation is cast aside as many of the participants are scarred shitless to say anything for fear of being austricised and made pariah.

 

In my opinion and its just an opinion, this industry has a long way to go before it can use the word professional and have it mean something!

 

 

P5