Flight Time Vs. Air Time Personal Logbook

[Golden_pilot]

 

 

In your log book, put FLIGHT TIME, which is from THE FIRST TIME YOU MOVE, till the LAST TIME YOU STOP MOVING (1 start)

 

 

 

 

 

But how does a skid helicopter move when it can't until its in the air??

 

The way you should word it is "When a component of the helicopter starts to move (ie. Blades spinning), not the whole helicopter itself."

 

lol

 

[Freewheel]

Do you really need to ask if ours says that,,,,ha ha..my lanta.

 

Why would both be approved,,,because you asked for it to be approved and seems as though there is no law against what you are asking. Many COM represent the law in different fashions and yours is more restrictive than the law and thus allowed. You can put in completely different flight duty time limits in your COM as long as they remain within the law and will be approved. But now yours become the law. So now your pilots when they put in 2 hours in the journey log for what they flown but 3 in personal log will of course have to use the 3 hour in flight duty time limit or do you have a slide rule or app to explain that?

 

Our company employs one pilot who is a miserable sob and believes in what is common sense, to log what is flown. ME.

Oh. So it can be done either way, depending on where you work.

 

This 101.01 definition ultimately ends up as a numerical figure which is used by pilots and others to comply with numerous CARs requirements inside and "outside" of your organization...from licensing to training standards to personal logs to flight time limits/fatigue etc.

 

We clearly always have been asking about minimum regulatory requirements. The response is what we got. We did not choose to implement these policies. We were advised that it was minimum regulatory requirement.

 

Are you that loose with the definition of air time?

 

If it's done correctly, two different individuals should not end up with different figures when calculating flight time (or air time for that matter).

[Over-Talk]

That's true....but if it's done correctly, two different TC offices shouldn't end up with different definitions.

And therein lies the problem.

[skullcap]

Lets see, when I fly for forestry and they pay according to the hobbs meter I write the exact same time in the flight report, journey log and pilot's flight duty time. How is that any contradictory to any of the rules?

 

I don't see how any individual would come up with a different number with the above method. If you have a pilot who puts in his pay sheet for more hours than the helicopter flew and more hours than the customer pays for would now be your problem. I can see no possible legitimate end to this cycle.

[Skidz]

Lets see, when I fly for forestry and they pay according to the hobbs meter I write the exact same time in the flight report, journey log and pilot's flight duty time. How is that any contradictory to any of the rules?

 

I don't see how any individual would come up with a different number with the above method. If you have a pilot who puts in his pay sheet for more hours than the helicopter flew and more hours than the customer pays for would now be your problem. I can see no possible legitimate end to this cycle.

 

That's assuming your Hobbs meter works. I was on fires a couple years ago with an inop Hobbs meter where forestry were quite happy to accept the VEMD "Operating time" number for each flight, which is calculated from the time VEMD goes to FLI (>60% Ng) to the time it comes out of FLI (<50% Ng), which is essentially start to shutdown...

 

My question is: Why is it we're the only country in the world that considers flight time = air time on skids-equipped helicopters ? Could it be that many moons ago certain government agencies (ie forestry) lobbied TC for this in order to reduce their costs ? I don't know the answer, just asking (and trying to stir the pot a little)... Why is the accepted norm around the world and written in black & white in ICAO rules that helicopter flight time is from start to shutdown not accepted in Canada ? I just don't get it ?

[Skidz]

...and to be clear, I don't really care one way or another, but I sure would like to saee all of us on the same page accross the board...

 

Have a wonderful weekend folks. I know I will, far far away from my 'puter and the Internet...

[Hazy]

Hobbs are only a tool and tools can be broken and out of calibration.

 

Truth: Collective full down descents will stop the clock and that can add up to significant amount after a day of production flying which is inaccurate air time for the JLB. Great for the operator who has this. I don't agree with it.

 

As for skids on the ground, maybe we get really anal about it and i'll stop counting toe-in time as air time. Maybe i'm counting it wrong?

[Freewheel]

I'm thinking maybe we'll submit a COM amendment to put the flight time = air time statement back in and start asking my pilots to abide by it... In their logbooks and flight time limits. My competition is...

 

We were just about to post an add for pilots for the season; no need if I use flight time = air time. they likely won't reach flight time limits, fewer crew changes, longer tours (and best of all more $$$$ for the company)

 

Then when things slow down, I'll change it back to what it says now...

[Freewheel]

And more money per your for the pilot also

[Freewheel]

I might actually be able to lay a pilot or two off