Flight Time Vs. Air Time Personal Logbook

[Freewheel]

We'll wait until the annual training is done first though (so we can cut costs by not having to use air time though)

[Freewheel]

The last post is meant to be sarcastic, but using skullcaps reasoning a company could save a PIILE of money if they made this amendment to their COM twice per year (substituting the 2 statements)...

Just ask skully how much his company $$ saves using air time to calculate his flight time limits. According to him it is the difference between being a 1 pilot operation and a 2 pilot operation. That's a 100% increase in staffing requirements.

 

I don't know about other companies, but at ours, Payroll is the biggest expense!

[skullcap]

Hazy,,,full down collective descents,,,hmmm good way to overspeed the shyte out of things. have done quite a few years of production flying and safest way is maintain (pardon the pun) freewheel engagement. Set the hobbs accordingly, and by the way do not use an actual 50 dollar hobbs meter which is crap but a digital davtron meter connected to collective set to run as soon as collective is moved a few mills.

 

I know quite a few pilots who use their gps as time tracker and have found it remarkable the same as the digital meter.

 

Freewheel, thought this thread was about the confusion,,,,,not an attack on one's company. I never brought it up that this was a way to save costs period. You don't like my pov,,,oh my. So your thought process in your method of computing hours is very honorable,,,you want to have your pilots paid more and hire more pilots. Awesome. I have had the joy of out of province companies taking two of my main customers away, even with my supposed super cost cutting measures....how is that,,,maybe because our maintenance was topnotch and the aircrew paid topnotch so perhaps wad up your attitude and....

 

Your competition is not doing anything underhanded or illegal,,,why not do the same and just pay your guys more, will save you and TC some headache,,,ha friggin ha.

[Helilog56]

Hmmmm......I've flown production for 30+ years....the only time a collective should be bottomed out is when the aircraft is on the ground !!!!!!

[helicopterjim]

Hmmmm......I've flown production for 30+ years....the only time a collective should be bottomed out is when the aircraft is on the ground !!!!!!

 

Nose down ... pull power, eh Bob!!

[skullcap]

And even on the ground maybe not too eh?

[Freewheel]

Hmmmm......I've flown production for 30+ years....the only time a collective should be bottomed out is when the aircraft is on the ground !!!!!!

What about during autorotations? Or is that not Air Time?

[Freewheel]

Hazy,,,full down collective descents,,,hmmm good way to overspeed the shyte out of things. have done quite a few years of production flying and safest way is maintain (pardon the pun) freewheel engagement. Set the hobbs accordingly, and by the way do not use an actual 50 dollar hobbs meter which is crap but a digital davtron meter connected to collective set to run as soon as collective is moved a few mills.

 

I know quite a few pilots who use their gps as time tracker and have found it remarkable the same as the digital meter.

 

Freewheel, thought this thread was about the confusion,,,,,not an attack on one's company. I never brought it up that this was a way to save costs period. You don't like my pov,,,oh my. So your thought process in your method of computing hours is very honorable,,,you want to have your pilots paid more and hire more pilots. Awesome. I have had the joy of out of province companies taking two of my main customers away, even with my supposed super cost cutting measures....how is that,,,maybe because our maintenance was topnotch and the aircrew paid topnotch so perhaps wad up your attitude and....

 

Your competition is not doing anything underhanded or illegal,,,why not do the same and just pay your guys more, will save you and TC some headache,,,ha friggin ha.

It was not meant to be an attack on one's company, but you seem to have no problem doing the same....I am pretty sure we've all list work to out of province competition...that us exactly why we should all be held to the same standard under the law. While you seem to think my competition isn't doing anything illegal, IMHO, the fact is, one of us is in violation of the CARs. Does that mean they are underhanded? I don't think so. Who knows maybe it's my company...is that my fault? I don't think so.

That is exactly why I said the confusion exists (although you still claim it doesn't).

 

You noted earlier, that my company implemented more restrictive policies that is required by the CARs; the point I am trying to make is: that all depends on how you look at it. The inspector who made our findings felt the opposite when he looked at our method from a flight training standpoint.

[Freewheel]

Once the findings were made, we created a notice to distribute to pilots telling them to use air time to calculate flight time limits. When TC inspectors reviewed it, they raised concerns that we were asking pilots to hedge their hours.WTF, over? The Flight time definition means different things depending on what we using the calculation for????

That is why we filed the CAIRs that ultimately led to the clarification offered by the director of standards and our COM amendment.

[Winnie]

Golden_Pilot

 

I tried to quite your post but the page wouldn't let me...

 

the thing is, the ICAO definition that the CARS are based on specifically states that (I'll paraphrase) Flight Time is from an AIRCRAFT moves under OWN POWER, so for a wheeled helicopter, when it starts wheeled taxi, or lifts up, or for a SKID EQUIPPED helicopter from when it lifts up THE FIRST TIME, till it stops for the last time, either wheels stop moving, or skids touch down. AIR TIME is ONLY time physically in the air.

 

Just because of the confusion initially created by Matt Millar and the rest of the guys in Transport that were responsible for writing the basis of the ops manual that most companies use today, we are today arguing on who's right and wrong, when in all actual fact, TC screwed the pooch by stating that Annual training should be based on AIR TIME...

 

This has led to this mess, when a simple look back at the original ICAO document that the CARs definition were based on, would set things straight. Instead we have a bunch of TC officials trying to argue and interject THEIR opinion based on the words of Matt Millar et al.

 

But, since they have made it this way, and refuse to set things straight, we will continue this argument for years.

 

Cheers

H.

(not confused)