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Flight Time Vs. Air Time Personal Logbook


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"Sure, use air-time for A/F time, but if the client is paying for it I will be logging it." Really...   So what your saying is a good few hundred hours of your 20k is actually with the skids on

Can't find the amendment to CARs for definition of helicopter flight time so do we revert back to logging air time?       General Aviation Policy Letter (GAPL) No. 2005-02   Reference Canadian

Twiddling your thumbs too : )

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  • 6 months later...

Norway does have the advantage when it's winter 12 months of the year. lol.

They can have their 12 months of winter! Can you imagine what our industry would be like these days without summer?

 

Speaking of summer, I hear it has been fairly busy out west this year. Good for you guys! Eastern Canada hasn't seen much of a summer to speak of. It's cold and has been pouring rain for 4 days straight where I am.

 

Did any of you guys and gals using "air time" in your "flight time" records approach or reach the CARs 700.15 flight time limits this summer?

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They can have their 12 months of winter! Can you imagine what our industry would be like these days without summer?

 

Speaking of summer, I hear it has been fairly busy out west this year. Good for you guys! Eastern Canada hasn't seen much of a summer to speak of. It's cold and has been pouring rain for 4 days straight where I am.

 

Did any of you guys and gals using "air time" in your "flight time" records approach or reach the CARs 700.15 flight time limits this summer?

 

Are you kidding me ? I'm from out east, so I know how lousy its been out there the past couple years, but it's far from rosy out west. The NWT fire flap has probably saved some companies from going under, but none of the jobs I've been on or heard of are anywhere near flying 8's... Seismic is dead. Craploads of machines flying the Northern Gateway corridor, but at 2 hr mins you don't get rich...

 

I think there's just enough work out here right now for companies and crews to stay afloat, but not much more than that...

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Are you kidding me ? I'm from out east, so I know how lousy its been out there the past couple years, but it's far from rosy out west. The NWT fire flap has probably saved some companies from going under, but none of the jobs I've been on or heard of are anywhere near flying 8's... Seismic is dead. Craploads of machines flying the Northern Gateway corridor, but at 2 hr mins you don't get rich...

 

I think there's just enough work out here right now for companies and crews to stay afloat, but not much more than that...

 

Further east ya go the worst it gets I think. Semi submersed is more like it haha. Brutal, l hope it breaks soon or Ill be getting a new endorsement on my licence one with wheels and a dump to use on those big union run projects that they refuse to use helicopters on. Going to be a lean winter hope for a busier summer next year.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Are you kidding me ? I'm from out east, so I know how lousy its been out there the past couple years, but it's far from rosy out west. The NWT fire flap has probably saved some companies from going under, but none of the jobs I've been on or heard of are anywhere near flying 8's... Seismic is dead. Craploads of machines flying the Northern Gateway corridor, but at 2 hr mins you don't get rich...

 

I think there's just enough work out here right now for companies and crews to stay afloat, but not much more than that...

Agreed it has been a slow year, but still, I've had a few pilots who needed to replaced due to approaching the 150 hr/30 day limit. Of course it would not have been necessary if they were logging flight time as the same as air time...

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  • 4 weeks later...

I just noticed that in TC's newfound fever for, respecting Canada's treaty obligations to adopt ICAO standards, their FDT NPA 2014-019 includes adopts the ICAO definition of "flight time".

 

Not much different from the present CARs definition of flight time but, noblesse oblige, you gotta do what you gatta do, under the treaty!

 

Did I mention the new definition of flight time will be word for word the ICAO definition of flight time ... for aeroplanes!

 

With 34 pages on this Forum, dedicated to arguing over what constitutes "flight time" for helicopters, why doesn't NPA 2014-019 include the adoption of the ICAO definition, for helicopters, word for word:

 

"Flight time helicopters

 

The total time from the moment a helicopters rotor blades start turning until the moment the helicopter finally comes to rest at the end of the flight, and the rotor blades are stopped."

 

Keep sending those cards and letters to TC. You have until October 3rd to let them know what the helicopter industry thinks of adopting ICAO standards.

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I'll be submitting comments before Oct. 3 deadline. As mentioned a CAIRS report was filed asking for clarification in 2011. One of the questions was with regards to the differences between canadian definition and ICAO definition for "flight Time" as they relate to helicopters. Here is the response from the Director of Standards and co-chair of the fatigue working group, Jacqueline Booth:

 

Concern #3

 

I also understand, that member states of ICAO must file differences in regulations with ICAO. To my knowledge no “difference†with respect the CARs and ICAO standards with regards to this issue have been filed.

 

j. booth's response:

 

As you pointed out the ICAO definition of flight time is not identical to the meaning of flight time within Subsection 101.01 (1) of the CARs. Many of the ICAO member states have individual phrases within their Regulations that are not identical to the ICAO Standards and Recommended Practices (SARPS). This occurs for many reasons. Unless a member state adopts the SARPS verbatim these subtle inconsistencies between the regulatory phrasing will continue to exist.

 

Differences are generally filed when the individual Member States regulations are not included, are missing, or not in compliance with the international aviation regulations. Where the definitions are not identical but are similar to those contained in the ICAO Annexes, a filing of a difference is not required. In many cases Canada has included definitions in the CARs that are not included, or are not exactly the same as the ICAO definitions. One example where similar definitions cover the same meaning or intent is the ICAO definition for Flight duty period and the CAR definition for flight duty time. These two definitions have the same meaning but are calculated differently

 

The entire official response to the CAIRS can be seen on page 7 of this forum. http://forums.verticalmag.com/index.php?showtopic=19518?&page=7

 

She also advises that for most Heli flights in Canada, Flight Time and Air Time are calculated as the same.

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