Flight Time Vs. Air Time Personal Logbook

[Skidz]

I've been asking myself a question for years, and no one has ever been able to provide me with a logical answer:

 

Why this dogmatic divergence of opinions on flight time vs air time in helicopters in this country ? Who benefits ?

 

It can't have anything to do with billing, because that has nothing to do with it. Companies bill however they want (air time, flight time, by the mile, by the bag, etc.).

 

Is this just one of those "my c0ck is bigger'n'yours" arguments or is their some clear scientific explanation for it ?

[Bif]

I think the main reason for the divergence, as you put it, is that depending on who logs personal hours one way and who logs another, certain pilots may attain various minimum pilot requirements before others (ie. Company A requires a pilot to have 1500 hrs before they are given a mtn course; Company B requires 3000 hrs PIC to apply for their job posting, Client X requires pilots assigned to their contract to have at least 1000 hrs).

[Skidz]

Right. So a pilot who comes to Canada from a country that respects the ICAO definition of flight time has a distinct advantage over the Canadian pilot who's been logging air time his entire career... Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot. If I'd logged ICAO flight time instead of the Canadian definition the past 11 years, I'd probably have 500 more hours in my logbook, which might translate to better wages and opportunities...

[donnybrook]

The policy letter was cancelled in 2011, I believe? If a person was logging only air time in their personal logbook, for the period the letter was in effect, they willingly shot themselves in the foot, ICAO or not.

[Skidz]

The policy letter was cancelled in 2011, I believe? If a person was logging only air time in their personal logbook, for the period the letter was in effect, they willingly shot themselves in the foot, ICAO or not.

 

That policy letter was issued in September 2005, and then repealed in August 2011.

 

From discussions I've had with many pilots, only a small minority of companies ever respected that policy letter. Especially those doing high volume work, where logging flight time would have had their pilots timing out a lot faster.

 

In the case of FTUs, their costs went down considerably during the time that policy letter was in force, and a little bird told me just last week that most FTU's are still logging flight time according to the policy letter. Doing otherwise would increase their costs...

 

I've had old timers tell me "I've never logged anything other than air time in my logbook, and anyone who does is a f-ing *****." Quite the badge of honour, wouldn't you say ?

 

Can we join the 21st century and get with the program ? Are we really that much better than everyone else that we can deliberately make it harder for our young pilots to accumulate their hours ?

[Freewheel]

I've been asking myself a question for years, and no one has ever been able to provide me with a logical answer:

 

Why this dogmatic divergence of opinions on flight time vs air time in helicopters in this country ? Who benefits ?

 

It can't have anything to do with billing, because that has nothing to do with it. Companies bill however they want (air time, flight time, by the mile, by the bag, etc.).

 

Is this just one of those "my c0ck is bigger'n'yours" arguments or is their some clear scientific explanation for it ?

Who benefits from a ambiguity and confusion with regards to a CARs regulatory definition? How about the scrupulous? Those who really aren't interested in regulatory compliance.

 

If you reach a limit using air time, you likely have 20-30% more actual flight time. some time the gap could be even higher. So a pilot with 150 hours actually has 180 hours. Of course the pilots "billing time" to the client is 180 hours. The company makes more money per rotation and so does the pilot. The company will also have significantly fewer expensive crew changes. Of course, billing time is usually much closer the the ICAO definition of flight time than air time.

 

Also a company using air time would also require fewer pilots during busy periods, reducing the incidental costs of having more pilots on staff. (ie. training costs, payroll deductions, benefits etc)

 

This will be even more significant moving forward with reduced limits.

 

If the pilot were ever to have an accident he may find himself defending how he logged his time; but then again, depending on which TC inspector they called to the stand as an expert witness, he may testify that flight time does indeed equal air time.

 

All laws are meant to be enforced "fairly" in Canada. No one person should receive benefit over another under the law and all citizens deserve equal protection under the law.

 

This is contrary to your basic rights as a Canadian citizen.

[Freewheel]

Oh yeah...and the pilot who is found to be guilty of hedging his flight times will take the brunt of the punitive action or civil action since it is his responsibility to log and maintain his flight time limits...not the scrupulous operator.

[Freewheel]

Let's not forget the Director of Standards and Associate director of Operations-Ontario claimed Flight time in Canada is actually calculated differently from Air Time and ICAO Flight time...Page 7 and 19 of this forum.

[Freewheel]

I've been asking myself a question for years, and no one has ever been able to provide me with a logical answer:

 

Why this dogmatic divergence of opinions on flight time vs air time in helicopters in this country ? Who benefits ?

 

It can't have anything to do with billing, because that has nothing to do with it. Companies bill however they want (air time, flight time, by the mile, by the bag, etc.).

 

Is this just one of those "my c0ck is bigger'n'yours" arguments or is their some clear scientific explanation for it ?

Have you ever approached a Flight Time Limit under CARs 700.15 Skidz?

 

My question has nothing to do with science or my manhood. I'm only concerned about what the Canadian Aviation Regulations say and compliance. Since you used air time in your flight time records, I'd say that if you have approached a limit you were in violation of 700.15.

[Skidz]

Have you ever approached a Flight Time Limit under CARs 700.15 Skidz?

 

My question has nothing to do with science or my manhood. I'm only concerned about what the Canadian Aviation Regulations say and compliance. Since you used air time in your flight time records, I'd say that if you have approached a limit you were in violation of 700.15.

 

Unfortunately, I've only ever timed out once in 11 years of flying, and I was working for an operator that was using flight time...