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OGEgirl

Flight Time Vs. Air Time Personal Logbook

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That's unfortunate, but it still doesn't mean you've never been in violation.

 

By your own words their would be 20% increase had you not used air time in your flight time records, so if we reduce the limits by 20%, your 7 day limit would actually be approximately 48 hours, 30 day limit, 120 hours of air time etc. I beleive 20% is a low estimate of what the difference would be on most jobs; I assume the 20% is an average, so on some jobs it could be a more. We have one contract that we do 12 weeks per year where flight time could be double air time. I'm not suggesting you back and audit your records again, just playing devils advocate.

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Hello to all,

I'm joining this Topic just now.

I'm flying in Switzerland and we must log the time in two different matters:

 

  • on machine logbook we must log the (from Pilot recorded) effective flight time, skid or wheels off / skid or wheel on! That's Count for components retairing and / or overhaul.

 

  • Pilot logbook we must record the Rotor Turning Time (self explaining); just by one single helicopter it is then funny to record it: LAMA, because you may stop the rotor without shut down the engine.

In this second case it can happen (in bigger Airports) that the time you have to wait on ground for the takeoff clearance, you will then record it as flight experience; it does not play a big role for well experienced pilots, but by young pilots it does, and how!

In the second case again, in aerial work external load, when you wait on ground with running rotors and engine, that the ground Crew (you called it chockers isn't?) will be ready for the mission, you still record flight time.

In my specific case while flying LAMA for 6 years and my mate was doing the same in the 350 B3 we had a difference of around 15%........ my own ego was suffering ...... :stupid:

 

Cheers and Keep safe

 

Moreover, because our Country still apply National Laws also in aviation, I'm recording in the company's logs my flight and rest time as flight time, because I can then flight longer in a day against the rotor turning .....

 

Is a kind of mixed salad .....

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Anyone feel like taking part in a little compliance exercise?

 

Here's a new question that is being added to our Indoctrination Exam.

 

I'd welcome any responses, regardless of what your point of view is. No judging. Feel free to elaborate on the reasoning for your answer if you feel the need.

 

Q. A pilot flies a Bell 206 Jet Ranger between CYMO (Moosonee Airport) and the Lagoon Heliport (Moose Factory Island) and makes the following entries in his pilot flight log.
Time up is the moment his skids leave the earth’s surface and Time down is the moment his skids make contact with the earth’s surface at the next landing.


Engine Start Time/Blades turning: 754

Time Up Time Dn Air Time Starts Comments
800 804 4 min 1 CYMO – Lagoon
809 812 3 min 0 Lagoon – CYMO
816 819 3 min 0 CYMO – Lagoon
822 825 3 min 0 Lagoon – CYMO
829 833 4 min 0 CYMO – Lagoon
838 841 3 min 0 Lagoon – CYMO
844 847 3 min 0 CYMO – Lagoon
850 853 3 min 0 Lagoon – CYMO
855 858 3 min 0 CYMO – Lagoon
904 909 5 min 0 Lagoon – CYMO Shutdown @ 912


A. For the above entries: The pilots calculated Flight Time and Air Time respectively, should be:

 

a. Flight Time = 1.3 / Air Time = 0.6
b. Flight Time = 0.6 / Air Time = 0.6
c. Flight Time = 1.2/ Air Time = 0.6
d. Flight Time = 1.3 / Air Time = 1.3

e. Flight Time = 1.3/ Air Time 1.0
f. Flight Time = 1.2 / Air Time = 1.2

g. Flight Time = 1.2/ Air Time 1.0

h. Other: Flight Time = / Air Time =

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As I have been flying in Istanbul, our customer wants us recording engine time. Interesting with a Crane, as it has 3 turbine engines....lol

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I'm with helilog on this one. I consider the interpretation of the aircraft moving under its own power to mean the airfoil. The wings on an airplane or the rotorblades of a helicopter.

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I'm with helilog on this one. I consider the interpretation of the aircraft moving under its own power to mean the airfoil. The wings on an airplane or the rotorblades of a helicopter.

Someone once told me that a helicopter at full rotor Rpm and flat pitch is in the same situation as a fixed wing aircraft barreling down the runway moments before rotation. Similar thinking.

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In reality we are circulating 2 questions in an email below. Amazing how fast some high ranking TC officials responded. Apparently they need a few weeks to answer. As stated, I'd appreciate responses from any industry stakeholders.

Here is the e-mail sent to numerous stakeholders and TC officials nationwide.

 

Good afternoon,

 

How are you today? I trust all is well. The reason for this e-mail is to respectfully request your assistance. I know you are busy, but I can assure you it will only take a few minutes of your time.

 

Expedition Helicopters Inc. Safety Management System/ Integrated Management System has identified what we perceive to be a as a Hazard to our operations and Aviation Safety.

 

The HAZARD identified is: Transport Canada and Industry wide confusion surrounding the regulatory requirements for calculating and logging “Flight Time” and “Air Time” in skid equipped helicopters (in compliance with the CARs). It is evident that this exists within Transport Canada: we have received differing interpretations from Headquarters, Regional Authorities and the Standards branch. High Ranking Regional Officials have also acknowledged the confusion exists.

 

It seems there are at least 3 separate yet distinct ways that the definition of “Flight Time” is being interpreted by Transport Canada and calculated throughout the helicopter industry.

 

Part of our Corrective Action is to implement additional training for our pilots. Under the CARs, this training requires that we validate the pilots competence through comprehensive examination.

 

To ensure our training is sufficient and that pilots are knowledgeable on calculating both Air Time and Flight Time, the following question will be added to the Indoctrination Exam (which pilots complete annually).

 

We are reaching out to industry stakeholders, pilots and TC officials Nationwide and asking them to respond to the following 2 questions. I kindly and respectfully request that you review the 2 simple multiple choice questions below and reply to this e-mail responding what you believe to be the correct answers.

 

I'd welcome any responses, regardless of what your point of view is. Feel free to elaborate on the reasoning for your answers if you feel the need.

 

I have already distributed Question 1 to all of our pilots and most have responded. Before we add them to our Indoctrination Exam, we want to be sure we are training our pilots on compliance requirements correctly and clearly understand what are the “correct answers” to these questions.

 

We intend on using the responses to determine what we believe to be the “compliant method” (and train as such).

 

Q1. A pilot flies a Bell 206 Jet Ranger between CYMO (Moosonee Airport) and the Lagoon Heliport (Moose Factory Island) and makes the following entries in his pilot flight log.

Time up is the moment his skids leave the earth’s surface and Time down is the moment his skids make contact with the earth’s surface at the next landing.

 

Engine Start Time/Blades turning: 754

 

Time Up Time Dn Air Time Starts Comments

800 804 4 min 1 CYMO – Lagoon

809 812 3 min 0 Lagoon – CYMO

816 819 3 min 0 CYMO – Lagoon

822 825 3 min 0 Lagoon – CYMO

829 833 4 min 0 CYMO – Lagoon

838 841 3 min 0 Lagoon – CYMO

844 847 3 min 0 CYMO – Lagoon

850 853 3 min 0 Lagoon – CYMO

855 858 3 min 0 CYMO – Lagoon

904 909 5 min 0 Lagoon – CYMO

 

Engine Shutdown @ 912

 

 

A1. For the above entries: The pilots calculated Flight Time and Air Time respectively, should be:

 

a. Flight Time = 1.3 / Air Time = 0.6

b. Flight Time = 0.6 / Air Time = 0.6

c. Flight Time = 1.2/ Air Time = 0.6

d. Flight Time = 1.3 / Air Time = 1.3

e. Flight Time = 1.3/ Air Time 1.0

f. Flight Time = 1.2 / Air Time = 1.2

g. Flight Time = 1.2/ Air Time 1.0

h. Flight Time = 0.7/ Air Time = 0.6

i. Other: Flight Time = / Air Time =

 

Q2. A pilot flies a Bell 206 Jet Ranger from CYCN to CYTS with no landings enroute. He makes 1 landing at his destination and shuts down the helicopter.

He makes the following entries in his pilot flight log.

Time up is the moment his skids leave the earth’s surface and Time down is the moment his skids make contact with the earth’s surface at the next landing.

 

Engine Start Time/Blades turning: 754

 

Time Up Time Dn Air Time Starts Comments

800 824 24 min 1 CYCN – CYTS

 

Engine Shut Down @ 830

 

A2. For the above entries: The pilots calculated Flight Time and Air Time respectively, should be:

 

a) Flight Time = 0.4 / Air Time = 0.4

B) Flight Time = 0.6/Air Time = 0.4

c) Flight Time = 0.5 / Air Time = 0.4

d) Flight Time = 0.4 / Air Time = 0.3

e) Other: Flight Time = Air Time =

 

I thank you in advance for taking part in this exercise to promote regulatory compliance and look forward to your replies.

 

If you have any questions, don’t hesitate to contact me.

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