Flight Time Vs. Air Time Personal Logbook

[BadMonkey]

Um, since when is it a legal requirement for commercial operators to log flight time in aircraft journey logs? Mr. Joseph Szwalek is a little off on that one.

[bigD]

The official statement seems pretty black and white to me ! Log books match Journey log.

The flight time Section or air time section in the journey log?

[Freewheel]

For commercial operations, air operators must record both air time and flight time in the Aircraft Journey Log.

One of the first regulatory statements he makes is false. There is no such requirement to record Flight Time in JLB. Not since Christ was a cowboy. Maybe that's the problem here.

 

Also moments after sending the letter by e-mail he called us and told us that in many cases Flight Time and Air Time are not actually the same.

 

We are treating this as poor "Guidance Material" and nothing more.

[Fast]

Still doesn't answer the main question.

 

Say I am out with forestry on an Astar. I fly 6 hours as per the aerodyne/Hobbs. I have 1 start and I land several times for a crew to hook up my longline and during hot refuelling at a forestry bowser being refused by the refilling crews.

 

I start at 0800 and shut down at 1700, machine runs at 100% RPM that entire time.

 

Have both the Astar and I flown 6 hours Air time, and that's what my journey log keeps track of? Or have a I flown 9 hours and that's to go in my logbook and journey log??!!

[Fast]

I should add to that, what goes in my personal book then?

 

I have only ever logged Hobbs/aerodyne since getting my license in 2009.

 

So to me it's my norm to take whatever the aircraft flew as "airtime" and that's mirrored in my personal logbook. So I flew 6. Duty flight time was 6, duty day was then 11 hours for an hour before and an hour after. This what everyone else doing also??

[TopFuel]

According to the official statement!...Hobbs is what goes in your log book and what goes in the journey log. Black and white.

 

If this doesn't agree with you or your company ideas about, fatigue, rest, flight and duty....make it an internal SOP to adjust your "internal" ideas on how to deal with your confusion...but the legal transport rule says Hobbs.

[Fast]

No that's sounds about right! Just as long as my company and I are in line with TC, we're good to go

[BadMonkey]

Any company that wants to hold to the "airtime equals flight time" is just shooting themselves in the foot. Funny how an organization that states it wants to move toward ICAO harmony, actually goes against it.

 

As a senior pilot and company trainer, I always told guys they could go either way they wanted, just be aware that in a wreck, Transport may want to audit your logbook. If I saw a discrepancy of 10% between his personal logbook "flight time" and company tracked "air time", I wouldn't bat an eye since it accounts for what we're really doing in the field. I see 20%....it's gonna raise some flags.

 

Look at it this way, if a contract required a 1500hr pilot, a 10% loss in logable time puts him down to 1350hrs instead of 1500hrs he would have had. 150 hrs may not seem like much, but depending on how much that pilot flys, he could be another 6 months to a year before his company could put him on a 1500hr contract. Is that smart business? Is that good for the pilot? Does it really effect safety in any way? Is that not the ICAO standard anyway?

 

All that loss for what? So your paperwork is easier?

[Fast]

BadMonkey I agree with you!

 

I have had the pleasure to start working on the ground under senior pilots who were in the 20,000 hour mark. They told me it's better to have 1000 hours and fly like you have 3000 vs the reverse.

 

Granted that makes sense till customer requirements come into play.

 

I have worked with guys who use a 10% rule for every flight, adding 10% to whatever the airtime is. At the end of the day I want to know every hour I have is honest and accurate. I don't stand for padding ones logbook and that's solely my opinion and that doesn't make it right or wrong.

 

I'll keep doing what I'm doing and log Hobbs till I hear different.

[Freewheel]

After listening to Mr.Szwalek on the phone I don't think he'd stand a chance at defending his position in court. He was back peddling the whole time and very inconsistent with comments. Despite promising "regulation based answers" he did not provide 1 CARs reference to support his claims; furthermore he believes flight time is required to be logged in th JLB.

 

Read the CARs and make an informed decision. relying on TC to provide you with accurate guidance material could be a mistake. As a pilot you have a requirement to abide by the CARs (as written) not by what a TC official tells you. He won't be around when you're on the stand defending why you are over a limit of 700.15. From what I've seen most pilots are weak when it comes to CARs knowledge.

 

One thing for sure though. If I was s student pilot right now and I read this I'd be asking for my training requirements to be met in Air Time hours. The regional director says flight time = air time which likely means you'd end up with 10-20 extras hours (per 100 hrs) at the controls at most FTUs.