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OGEgirl

Flight Time Vs. Air Time Personal Logbook

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Heres the reply I received from Mr. Szwalek to the true or false question (flight time = time in operation). Also included on email were:

Aaron McCrorie, Michael Stephenson, Dave Laamanen, Jennifer Holmes, Dave White, Robert Freeman, and President of HAC, Fred Jones

I guess they can't answer a true or false question; sticking with the Flight Time = Air Time interpretation.

 

Good afternoon

 

At this time I have no further information to provide on the matter of air time vs. flight time for skid-equipped helicopters. The information you were provided is the most current interpretation from headquarters.

 

The matter is due for review at the national level, however it is not on the agenda at this time. It will be reviewed when time and resources allow.

 

Please note that no further correspondence will be forthcoming from the region on the matter until such time as there is new information to share.

 

Regards,

 

 

Joseph M. Szwalek

Regional Director Civil Aviation

Directeur régional Aviation civile

Ontario Region / Région de l'Ontario

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Chad, it occurs to me that the airtime definition will suffice regarding flight time as far as Flight & Dury times.

If TC can't interpret their own regulations, the lawyers would have a difficult time hanging a pilot on using that formula.

TC seems like their own organization is in total chaos, a ship without a captain..... And to think they are regulating the whole transportation industry, pretty scary!

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Chad, it occurs to me that the airtime definition will suffice regarding flight time as far as Flight & Dury times.

If TC can't interpret their own regulations, the lawyers would have a difficult time hanging a pilot on using that formula.

TC seems like their own organization is in total chaos, a ship without a captain..... And to think they are regulating the whole transportation industry, pretty scary!

 

It occurs to me that any definition you wish to use would suffice.

 

Put whatever you please in your logbook, training records, flight time/Duty Time records, licencing records...FTUs can give student pilots whatever they feel appropriate before getting a commercial licence (who cares about minimum licensing requirements).

 

Your defense could easily be "Officially Induced Error" if they ever tried to hang you out to dry at Tribunal or Civil litigation. But should you need a defense? That's the problem. Most people would prefer not to get to that point.

 

Why even worry about the CARs requirements in those aspects? It appears they don't really mean that much if we can't agree what Flight Time means.

 

While we are at it, why not just forget about the CARs requirements all together.

 

And since a large portion of TCs surveillance and company QA is based on these definitions; how effective is it?

 

Many also appear to getting confused about what "air time" means. No safety or economics issues there, eh?

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Well I start my time when the skids leave the ground and stop when I land to shutdown. Out journey log doesn't even have a column for flight time. Same would go for training records, tech records and I would suggest the FTU's do the same. What I bill doesn't enter the equation. If worse came to worst, I think a good lawyer could defend that position.

 

That's all I have to add, just my opinion...

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And you are completely entitled to your opinion.

 

If, by "my time" you mean both flight time and air time, I would suggest you have very over-inflated maintenance costs. Particularly if you conduct flights with more than one landing (like most of us).

 

So we are clear, why not answer the 2 multiple choice questions posed a few pages back?

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Sorry, auto-correct error, I meant air time Freewheel.

 

I don't use flight time anymore, it's all air time, so no excessive time on components. If after take off I'm turning and burning and not planning on shutting down due to customer request, I'm billing. It's all being paid for.

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Billing or not you're logging time on components unnecessarily. If I bill the same way as you and only log my actual time in the air as air time I'm incurring significantly less cost and have a higher profit margin. You would be an expensive pilot to employ; particularly on jobs with lots of time spent on ground/multiple landings. Why don't you answer the multiple choice questions?

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Q1. A pilot flies a Bell 206 Jet Ranger between CYMO (Moosonee Airport) and the Lagoon Heliport (Moose Factory Island) and makes the following entries in his pilot flight log.

Time up is the moment his skids leave the earths surface and Time down is the moment his skids make contact with the earths surface at the next landing.

 

Engine Start Time/Blades turning: 754

 

Time Up Time Dn Air Time Starts Comments

800 804 4 min 1 CYMO Lagoon

809 812 3 min 0 Lagoon CYMO

816 819 3 min 0 CYMO Lagoon

822 825 3 min 0 Lagoon CYMO

829 833 4 min 0 CYMO Lagoon

838 841 3 min 0 Lagoon CYMO

844 847 3 min 0 CYMO Lagoon

850 853 3 min 0 Lagoon CYMO

855 858 3 min 0 CYMO Lagoon

904 909 5 min 0 Lagoon CYMO

 

Shutdown @ 912. Rotors Stopped @ 914

A1. For the above entries: The pilots calculated Flight Time and Air Time respectively, should be:

 

a. Flight Time = 1.3 / Air Time = 0.6

b. Flight Time = 0.6 / Air Time = 0.6

c. Flight Time = 1.2/ Air Time = 0.6

d. Flight Time = 1.3 / Air Time = 1.3

e. Flight Time = 1.3/ Air Time 1.0

f. Flight Time = 1.2 / Air Time = 1.2

g. Flight Time = 1.2/ Air Time 1.0

h. Flight Time = 0.7/ Air Time = 0.6

i. Other: Flight Time = / Air Time =

 

Q2. A pilot flies a Bell 206 Jet Ranger from CYCN to CYTS with no landings enroute. He makes 1 landing at his destination and shuts down the helicopter.

He makes the following entries in his pilot flight log.

Time up is the moment his skids leave the earths surface and Time down is the moment his skids make contact with the earths surface at the next landing.

 

Engine Start Time/Blades turning: 754

 

Time Up Time Dn Air Time Starts Comments

800 824 24 min 1 CYCN CYTS

 

Engine Shut Down @ 830; Rotors stopped @ 831

 

A2. For the above entries: The pilots calculated Flight Time and Air Time respectively, should be:

 

a) Flight Time = 0.4 / Air Time = 0.4

b)Flight Time = 0.6/Air Time = 0.4

c) Flight Time = 0.5 / Air Time = 0.4

d) Flight Time = 0.4 / Air Time = 0.3

e) Other: Flight Time = / Air Time =

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