Flight Time Vs. Air Time Personal Logbook

[Freewheel]

Sorry, auto-correct error, I meant air time Freewheel.

 

I don't use flight time anymore, it's all air time, so no excessive time on components. If after take off I'm turning and burning and not planning on shutting down due to customer request, I'm billing. It's all being paid for.

Your answer would be Q1 f). And Q2 a). Correct. That means in Q1 you've logged twice as much air time as me, while we are still billing the the same. If I use Rotors to start turning to rotors stop, I get an extra 0.1 billing (1.3 vs 1.2)

[hybrid]

Your answer would be Q1 f). And Q2 a). Correct. That means in Q1 you've logged twice as much air time as me, while we are still billing the the same. If I use Rotors to start turning to rotors stop, I get an extra 0.1 billing (1.3 vs 1.2)

That's correct, that's how I have always done it. Most clients that I have and do fly would not be a very happy customer if I billed them from start up till shutdown. You can do what you want to keep the times down on your components, but I think you are shortchanging them. That's why we bill, to pay for the the operating costs and hopefully some profit. Although I think there is little profit these days, but that's another topic. I've been at this a while now and have never had an operator question how I log or bill. If you are turning at 100% NR, you are wearing your components. At least I think you are, of course you are free to disagree...

[flingwinger]

Not according to the manufacturers. Air time to them is skids up to skids down. The time on the ground is not considered component time

[Freewheel]

That's correct, that's how I have always done it. Most clients that I have and do fly would not be a very happy customer if I billed them from start up till shutdown. You can do what you want to keep the times down on your components, but I think you are shortchanging them. That's why we bill, to pay for the the operating costs and hopefully some profit. Although I think there is little profit these days, but that's another topic. I've been at this a while now and have never had an operator question how I log or bill. If you are turning at 100% NR, you are wearing your components. At least I think you are, of course you are free to disagree...

Short changing parts eh? I don't think so. If you've been doing this for a while you've probably replaced many components prematurely. You might want to review your maintenance manuals. Sounds like the Flight Time = Air time interpretation has cost your company quite a bit of unnecessary expenses to me. Here's Airbus has to say.

 

Good morning,

 

I am doing ok here I hope you are also.

 

Regarding your question yesterday on flight and air time please review the following.

Airbus Helicopters is concerned with limitations expressed in Flight Hours (FH), Calendar time & Cycles.

The definition of FH is given in both the Chapter 4 Airworthiness Limitations Section (ALS) and Chapter 5 Master Servicing Manual (MSM) both are available through TIPI and as part of the standard documentation for each model of aircraft operated.

 

This definition of flight hours (not to be confused with Flight TIME) corresponds to Air Time as defined in CARs Section 101.01:

 

Airbus Helicopters does not take into account running time (i.e. flight time by ICAO definition) for purposes of tracking limitations.

 

So in answer to your two questions:

 

A1: answer a. Flight Time = 1.3 / Air Time = 0.6

A2: answer Flight Time = 0.6 / Air Time = 0.4 (Note: rotors stopped at 0831)

 

If you have any further questions regarding Airbus Helicopters requirements for tracking time please let us know.

Best regards,

Rod

 

Rod TUPALA

Technical Support (Ontario)

Airbus Helicopters Canada Limited

 

Also several transport Canada approved electronic cycle counters and air time counters calculate air time this wAy....Jenkins with squat switch, AKV WITH collective switch etc.

[twinstar_ca]

tried deleting the extra posts, it still won't let me use moderator functions..

[Freewheel]

Most business' also bill to cover all costs...not just the direct operating costs of their equipment. Do you think airline prices are based on only covering aircraft direct operating costs? What about Pilot wages, overhead, fuel, staff, specialty equipment, hangars, utilities etc

[hybrid]

Like I said I have been in the business a while now Freewheel, I think I have figured out that there are more costs to business than direct operating costs.

 

I don't spend a lot of time flying school kids across the river in Moosenee, so I don't spend a lot of time spinning on the tarmac. I'm quite sure I'm not bankrupting the company I fly for by my logging formulas.

 

Having said that, I found the information from Airbus quite informative. Thanks for that!

 

I find your comments condescending, so I am done with commenting anymore in this thread. I'm sure you will want the last word though. Fire away, then move on to your next crusade...

[Freewheel]

I'm sorry if my comments seemed condescending. I can assure you that was not my intention. Sometimes written comments can come across that way, especially when trying to be brief on a smart phone.

 

As for last word...all I've got is: since u seem to feel we are on a first name basis, I am curious who I'm speaking to.

[Freewheel]

I don't spend much time on a Tarmac either. Mostly sitting on ground in the bush

[Freewheel]

I don't spend much time on a Tarmac either. Mostly sitting on ground in the bush