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kootenay

As350B2, Sd2, Or Fx2

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They say it is more efficient however when was the last time you had a problem with a B2 tail rotor..over kill it seems to me. However I am just a meat servo

 

Here is where one of Eurocopters technical objections lie. The tail rotor has been designed taking into account the engine performance and overall aircraft performance at altitude. The Arriel 1 series becomes the limiting factor at altitude, so you are not able to put full power into the transmission. The air is obviously less dense so the tail rotor is less effective but since the engine is limiting power the size of the B2 tail rotor seems to be "perfectly" designed. Now add more horsepower and pull 100% tq at an altidude the aircraft was never designed to be able to and the tail rotor efficiency becomes more critical. You would think that the loss of efficiency would be equal between the main and tail rotors, but they are not. Hense the light bulb tuning on and the B3 tail rotor is applied.

 

I love "meat servo", never heard it before!

 

Other than some minor paper work hurdles, the FX issue on components is just a small bump in the road. An expected result when the parent company holds the type certificate and someone makes modifications

 

Its a CYA thing.

 

 

I agree for the most part. But it must be more than that, they have no issues with the other STC's that utilize the same powerplant.

 

 

Anyway, I strongly recommend you don't write off the L4 until you've looked at least as closely at it as anything else.

 

I am not a Bell guy, don't like the 206 series airframe and I have lots of experience on them. However, The L4 seems like a great aircraft, very little issues, in fact the last time I saw a brand new one in the hangar (2004'ish??) I was impressed to hear that there were NO AD's against the aircraft, at all. Seems like it has taken all of the lessons learned on the previous platforms. Very impressive in my oppinion.

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Great stuff everyone. Keep it coming.

Let's add a thought......

 

AS350B3. Bigger dollars but once in the field how does it work out?

I've heard many comments half good half bad.

Fadec issues, magic "black boxes" that fail.

 

One comment I agree with is the B3 is likely to become the B2 of the future?

 

Oh, Congrat.'s we've made it to page two......

 

Thanks All

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Great stuff everyone. Keep it coming.

Let's add a thought......

 

AS350B3. Bigger dollars but once in the field how does it work out?

I've heard many comments half good half bad.

Fadec issues, magic "black boxes" that fail.

 

One comment I agree with is the B3 is likely to become the B2 of the future?

 

Oh, Congrat.'s we've made it to page two......

 

Thanks All

 

The B3 is an amazing aircraft. Aside from cost, there isn't much bad you can say about it. There has been a large evolution of the B3 so the earlier ones have a few more quirks than the latter versions. The further down the spectrum you go towards the B3e the more amazing the aircraft is. New style tail rotor, new style hydraulic pump, dual hydraulics for increased internal gross weight (and safety), Arriel 2D fly by wire engine- zero mechanical controls. The only problem is that the closer you get the the B3e is that you get closer to the B3e price tag!!

 

There is no doubt regarding the eventual obsolescence of the B2. Just a matter of when. EC just performed test flights a couple of days ago of some kind of version of B3 that has a hybrid power system. It has a "highly compact" electrical motor and lithium ion battery pack that provides "extra maneuverability" during an autorotation. The next best thing is always just around the corner.

 

Whirly

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One comment I agree with is the B3 is likely to become the B2 of the future?

 

The future is already here, just not in Canada! In Austria/Switzerland/France (especially the mountains) the B2 is an obsolete hunk of garbage, relegated to shuttling passengers on short tourist flights. B3's do all the 'real' work.

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Other than some minor paper work hurdles, the FX issue on components is just a small bump in the road.

 

Not entirely. IIRC, the tail rotor gearbox overhaul is significantly increased (more frequent) due to running the B3 tail rotor, unless they've added a B3 TGB on later FX models.

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The future is already here, just not in Canada! In Austria/Switzerland/France (especially the mountains) the B2 is an obsolete hunk of garbage, relegated to shuttling passengers on short tourist flights. B3's do all the 'real' work.

 

Hunk of garbage? A touch dramatic I think. The B2 is a very capable utility helicopter.

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Not entirely. IIRC, the tail rotor gearbox overhaul is significantly increased (more frequent) due to running the B3 tail rotor, unless they've added a B3 TGB on later FX models.

 

That wasn't what I meant. The reduced SLL of the gearset was Helilynx's option to do, and if you bought the kit, you were well aware of the reduction. HeliLynx erred on the side of safety by a big margin.

 

As far as ECF is concerned, the TRGB is simply put under a concession to ensure it is only installed on an FX and information is retained on file for any future requirements if necessary.

 

the big problem from my understanding, and it's debateable from both sides, was the FX mod was done, completed and certified, with no input or consultation from ECF. and since they hold the type certificate, they still have liability. They didn't like the fact this went on, and initially curtailed the overhaul of said components to the point it was a huge pain in the a$$. It's considerably relaxed now compared to the beginning, but is still documented enough that they are dotting their i's and crossing their t's.

As anyone knows, the B3 runs the exact same gearset, yet the FX pulls alot less power. Its a pointless excericise, other than to prove, that the maunufacture holds the strings for the most part.

 

In the future when SLL are increased, I am very interested to find out the status of the FX models and where they end up.

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And I should add to the OP post about fadec trouble and "black box failures", Most issues are related to improper troubleshooting and improper procedures. There is a set of B3 blades at Eurocopter that had been removed due to an over speed 490 RPM I believe. They went faster but that is when the VEMD stops recording. The pilot got a GOV light and for some reason dropped the collective, leading to an intense over speed. It is a different aircraft, digital, both pilots and engineers must adapt appropriately.

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We operate 3 FXII’s, one AS350 D and a B2. The B2 is weeks away from becoming an SD2 and hopefully that will be the last Arriel engine we ever see. Cost of operation is much higher and performance lower than the 700 but most importantly, read the Turbomeca procedure that must be adhered to every time metal is found in the oil system. Good luck next time you find the tiniest piece of fuzz on your chip plug during your DI.

We have no problems getting our FX components overhauled by Eurocopter, they just want to keep them segregated from the rest of the fleet so the pool of available FX exchange components is not as big as it would be for a straight AS350.

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Hunk of garbage? A touch dramatic I think. The B2 is a very capable utility helicopter.

 

I meant that in many places in Europe, the B2 is considered obsolete, with the B3 having taken over the role. But yes, in Canada it is still a very capable a/c.

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