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I Was Wondering Why This Is So


MedMan
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"the requirement in my (TC) region is different than in your region"

 

"the regulation is interpreted differently in my (TC) region than in some others"

 

=====

 

"asked several TC inspectors and Supervisors a simple question, yet receive no clear response"

 

"confused with this situation (as are most pilots in the industry)"

 

"This issue affects all of us no matter where or who you work for"

 

"you have to look at what the customer wants to pay for and what is the mission"

 

"Come on TC get it together it's not that complicated"

 

"as long as everyone does the same thing it's a level playing field"

 

"I'm sure you will keep us posted"

 

"We have been discussing this with TC for several years"

 

"None of the inspectors or supervisors we have questioned with regards want to comment "on the record""

 

"It would be nice to get a concrete answer, this always seems to be a grey area open to interpretation"

 

With the exception of the first two, those quotes are taken from a current thread, and highlight only a few of the comments made in that thread. If there was ever a time for an association of helicopter aviators, it sure is now. Too bad you don't have one to represent the professional helicopter aviators that you are.

 

Cue the "blackball" comments.

 

Cue the "union" comments and other ignorance on the differences between "association" and "union" and how the two are exactly the same.

 

Cue the how a "union/association" of helicopter pilots will only result in "blackballing" comments.

 

Cue the company shills who have no idea how a professional association would benefit them.

 

Cue the I would join one if there was one, but I'd want to wait to see how it all shakes out first comments.

 

Cue the we don't need a "union" in "this business" comments.

 

Cue the it's not necessary, we can solve our problems on our own comments.

 

=====

 

Yes, I'm aware of the HEPAC attempt and many of the positive posts regarding it made by many. I also recall reading many of the uninformed and negative remarks as well, as highlighted above.

 

I'll ask one more time: Why don't professional helicopter aviators have an association to represent valid concerns on behalf of all of you? Sadly, it does appear that you have needed one for decades now.

 

Where is it?

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With the exception of the first two, those quotes are taken from a current thread, and highlight only a few of the comments made in that thread. If there was ever a time for an association of helicopter aviators, it sure is now. Too bad you don't have one to represent the professional helicopter aviators that you are.

 

Cue the "blackball" comments.

 

Cue the "union" comments and other ignorance on the differences between "association" and "union" and how the two are exactly the same.

 

Cue the how a "union/association" of helicopter pilots will only result in "blackballing" comments.

 

Cue the company shills who have no idea how a professional association would benefit them.

 

Cue the I would join one if there was one, but I'd want to wait to see how it all shakes out first comments.

 

Cue the we don't need a "union" in "this business" comments.

 

Cue the it's not necessary, we can solve our problems on our own comments.

 

=====

 

Yes, I'm aware of the HEPAC attempt and many of the positive posts regarding it made by many. I also recall reading many of the uninformed and negative remarks as well, as highlighted above.

 

I'll ask one more time: Why don't professional helicopter aviators have an association to represent valid concerns on behalf of all of you? Sadly, it does appear that you have needed one for decades now.

 

Where is it?

 

 

You forgot "Cue, mind your own business" Ha ha.

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With the exception of the first two, those quotes are taken from a current thread, and highlight only a few of the comments made in that thread. If there was ever a time for an association of helicopter aviators, it sure is now. Too bad you don't have one to represent the professional helicopter aviators that you are.

 

Cue the "blackball" comments.

 

Cue the "union" comments and other ignorance on the differences between "association" and "union" and how the two are exactly the same.

 

Cue the how a "union/association" of helicopter pilots will only result in "blackballing" comments.

 

Cue the company shills who have no idea how a professional association would benefit them.

 

Cue the I would join one if there was one, but I'd want to wait to see how it all shakes out first comments.

 

Cue the we don't need a "union" in "this business" comments.

 

Cue the it's not necessary, we can solve our problems on our own comments.

 

=====

 

Yes, I'm aware of the HEPAC attempt and many of the positive posts regarding it made by many. I also recall reading many of the uninformed and negative remarks as well, as highlighted above.

 

I'll ask one more time: Why don't professional helicopter aviators have an association to represent valid concerns on behalf of all of you? Sadly, it does appear that you have needed one for decades now.

 

Where is it?

 

 

Good question! The answer is simple.

 

Follow this link! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments

 

In a nutshell yur dealing with the lowest common denominator. (LCD)

 

In fact those that are often revered as "great" are often in truth quite the opposite.

 

The key is to think for yourself no matter how unpopular it may be.

 

Glad you have asked this question...Personally it drives me nuts that such a simple concept/force can hinder progress.

 

P5

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There already is an association that represents the "valid concerns on behalf of all of you".

It is the Helicopter Association of Canada (H-A-C).

 

When you stop laughing, think about this....

 

The regional disparities amongst TC inspectors really don't affect me as a working dude.

I must comply with what my Operations Manual (approved by my local TC) tells me.

 

If my employer (the holder of a TC Ops Cert.) is concerned with Regulations/Interpretations varying in different parts of the country, then my employer can deal with TC on that matter.

They can do this individually, as Chad (an Ops Manager) is doing with the "Flight Time" topic, or they can ask the H-A-C to use its combined lobbying power to make some changes.

 

We don't need a Pilot's Association to handle something that is none of my business.

Literally, it is 'not my business'. I just work for that business.

I do what I'm told, and get paid what I agreed to.

If what I'm told to do is unsafe, or don't get paid what I agreed to, I will find another employer.

 

Most of the problems listed in the post that opens this topic refer to bureaucratic inefficiencies within TC.

A Pilot's Association won't make TC any more efficient.

And these inefficiencies aren't really serious enough for the formation of a Pilot's Association.

 

Let's face it, if my employer's complaints, or the combined weight of H-A-C can't get TC to make the changes needed, then the power of a Pilot's Association will hardly make TC shake in their boots.

 

MedMan, if you disagree with me and feel there is a genuine need for an Association, please start one. Honestly, I would be delighted to read your manifesto, and watch your progress.

 

However, as a suggestion.....don't call it HEPAC or OCCUPY TC.

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There already is an association that represents the "valid concerns on behalf of all of you".

It is the Helicopter Association of Canada (H-A-C).

 

When you stop laughing, think about this....

 

The regional disparities amongst TC inspectors really don't affect me as a working dude.

I must comply with what my Operations Manual (approved by my local TC) tells me.

 

If my employer (the holder of a TC Ops Cert.) is concerned with Regulations/Interpretations varying in different parts of the country, then my employer can deal with TC on that matter.

They can do this individually, as Chad (an Ops Manager) is doing with the "Flight Time" topic, or they can ask the H-A-C to use its combined lobbying power to make some changes.

 

We don't need a Pilot's Association to handle something that is none of my business.

Literally, it is 'not my business'. I just work for that business.

I do what I'm told, and get paid what I agreed to.

If what I'm told to do is unsafe, or don't get paid what I agreed to, I will find another employer.

 

Most of the problems listed in the post that opens this topic refer to bureaucratic inefficiencies within TC.

A Pilot's Association won't make TC any more efficient.

And these inefficiencies aren't really serious enough for the formation of a Pilot's Association.

 

Let's face it, if my employer's complaints, or the combined weight of H-A-C can't get TC to make the changes needed, then the power of a Pilot's Association will hardly make TC shake in their boots.

 

MedMan, if you disagree with me and feel there is a genuine need for an Association, please start one. Honestly, I would be delighted to read your manifesto, and watch your progress.

 

However, as a suggestion.....don't call it HEPAC or OCCUPY TC.

 

 

 

The basis of starting something like HEPAC was to build on things like....group life insurance, dental, medical, training, education, mentoring, financial and or legal assistance, and yes (if needed), a liason/representative "if" there were rule changes that may affect flight crews directly. There is certainly room for more support for us, if rules and laws are implemented, that would affect our industry?

 

Corporate sponsorship, membership, and government funding was being sought for the developement of our Canadian Helicopter industry flight and support crews. It was sad too think that so many other factions of Canadian business do get some funding, and we were always overlooked!

 

It was going too be a difficult task starting an association, given the complexities of having such a vast and diverse industry, spread over such a large country and beyond it's borders. Add to that the constant bleating of the naysayers that took a simple slogan ( a "voice" for the industry") as literal.....and yes momentum for it was very difficult.

 

Were the right people involved, aggenda's allocated, directives chosen.....perhaps not???

 

But to a lot of us, along with some operators that were less than enchanted with the HAC....thought the foundation of an association as described above, would be of a benefit to all involved. If you did not believe so.....then don't participate.

 

Perhaps one day someone will see merit to that, and pick up the ball and run with it.....???!!

 

Fire away....:rolleyes:

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The basis of starting something like HEPAC was to build on things like....group life insurance, dental, medical, training, education, mentoring, financial and or legal assistance, and yes (if needed), a liason/representative "if" there were rule changes that may affect flight crews directly. There is certainly room for more support for us, if rules and laws are implemented, that would affect our industry?

 

Corporate sponsorship, membership, and government funding was being sought for the developement of our Canadian Helicopter industry flight and support crews. It was sad too think that so many other factions of Canadian business do get some funding, and we were always overlooked!

 

It was going too be a difficult task starting an association, given the complexities of having such a vast and diverse industry, spread over such a large country and beyond it's borders. Add to that the constant bleating of the naysayers that took a simple slogan ( a "voice" for the industry") as literal.....and yes momentum for it was very difficult.

 

Were the right people involved, aggenda's allocated, directives chosen.....perhaps not???

 

But to a lot of us, along with some operators that were less than enchanted with the HAC....thought the foundation of an association as described above, would be of a benefit to all involved. If you did not believe so.....then don't participate.

 

Perhaps one day someone will see merit to that, and pick up the ball and run with it.....???!!

 

Fire away....:rolleyes:

 

 

Good post post H56- Brimming with optomism ( open ended) on a positive note I am overjoyed that there is only 1 moron that voted my post down. Normally there are at least -5. The message might be getting through! Wishfull thinking???

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If there was ever a time for an association of helicopter aviators, it sure is now.

 

I don't quite see it. The system doesn't seem to be falling apart. When the need is great enough, the people will put their foot down. It's basic human behaviour, and happens in any social, economic, or political context. The will of the people can change the world. If nothing happens, then that means the collective will of the people just isn't quite there in order to effect change.

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Good post post H56- Brimming with optomism ( open ended) on a positive note I am overjoyed that there is only 1 moron that voted my post down. Normally there are at least -5. The message might be getting through! Wishfull thinking???

 

It's too bad you can't keep the name-calling and 'dissing' out of your posts, John. Even if others are due criticism you don't have to continuall drag yourself down to their level and poison the dialogues.

 

Another post's mention of HAC brings to mind considering the reality of HAC's existing 'individual' membership category. I've always felt this could be a very worthwhile vehicle if enough pilots (as well as AMEs) would join. With sufficient numerical strength, a committee could be established, and a credible voice result. This option might well sidestep the 'anti-union' feelings that so obviously exist among many of the experienced helicopter crew personnel. Like anything else, it boils down to a matter of attitude, and a lot of good could be achieved. "Just saying..."

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It's too bad you can't keep the name-calling and 'dissing' out of your posts, John. Even if others are due criticism you don't have to continuall drag yourself down to their level and poison the dialogues.

 

Another post's mention of HAC brings to mind considering the reality of HAC's existing 'individual' membership category. I've always felt this could be a very worthwhile vehicle if enough pilots (as well as AMEs) would join. With sufficient numerical strength, a committee could be established, and a credible voice result. This option might well sidestep the 'anti-union' feelings that so obviously exist among many of the experienced helicopter crew personnel. Like anything else, it boils down to a matter of attitude, and a lot of good could be achieved. "Just saying..."

 

 

AahhahahahA! Sorry I'm jaded!

 

I try to keep it more polite!

 

p5

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