Need Input

[collective]

peeshooter;

yep..you are right...if there are more regulations involved..it will be a mistake. but, all this is ..is a good effort at letting them know what it is we do. Most of us have not had to deal with them. A good thing. The small group in Edmonton I am working with are spending bucks to find out what it is we do (WCB is paying for the helicopter time plus fuel). That in itself is not a bad thing. The more they know, the less we will have to 'edumacate' them down the road. No changes to legeslation. No new rules. No involvement in our space. Just..hey..this is what we do..and it is a little different then what you may have thought.

When a truck driver rolls his/her rig, there are set treatments, programs, that will, all things being the same, make him/her better. Or at least get him/her back to work. These treatments may not apply to what we do. All we are trying to do is find out what a pilot with, say, a back injury, will need to get him/her back in the right hand seat (or left in some cases). Now, having said that. Each injury is appartently, different. But the question remains, how can they help with tratment when no one knows what we do out there.

When your back is sore, is it more difficult to get the job done? They do not know about hanging out the door, rolling drums...hauling nets...etc.

What little things make it different? Thats all.

Again, thanks for the brain storming folks, it will help.

[Blackmac]

Collective/Cap;

 

My mistake, I was not aware that AB WCB iniated the study, my hat goes goes of to them. If the study creates a postive note, I would ask them to forward a copy to WCB Ont. as they are not equipped with best neurons.

 

Again, I aplogize and wish you all the best in your endeavours.

 

Going back to my prior post ask them what criteria covers a person who suffers a back injury (broken back) and was a "Bush Pilot" all his life and is incapable to this day of carrying out his prior duties.

 

That basically covers my dealings with WCB.

 

Cheers, Don

 

PS: From a safety point of vue, WCB should make it mandatory that all flight crew be issued nomex flight suits and crash helmets meeting a certain accepted standard plus any other equipment to enchance safety.

The WCB has inspectors qualified in the trucking, food, manufacturing and whatever. What qualified inspectors do they employ to oversee the aviation industry?????????

 

Peashooter: You have a tendacy to see things like a horse with road blinders on, very narrow and isolated. Remember you are not the only person that regulations effect, a good many people and operators need them as the industry has shown.

[cap]

Collective -------- :up:

[Rosco]

If I can add my $0.02 here....

 

I just went through a whole bunch of #### here with some of my divers and WCB. I got rid of 3 drivers all of which were "bogus" claims. It took some work but once I got WCB on side they were great to work with.....the struggle was to get them on side.

 

The best thing I did was hire a Ergonomist to do a Physical Needs Assessment which entailed 3 days of job task evaluation. Everything from pushing, pulling, lifting, driving etc.....to pretty much getting up in the morning.

 

I provided this to WSIB and what a picture it painted for them which really worked to my advantage. The other thing which is awesome is that when you send an employee for an assessment (independent or WSIB) or pre-employment medical the MD knows exactly what is entailed in the employees duties. No more pullin the wool over anyone's eyes.

 

The Ergonomist used was a contractor which WSIB uses also :shock: and I would highly recommend going this route to anyone interested.

 

Thought this info might be relevant to some degree in this instance.

 

Hope it helps

 

Cheers

 

R

[Skidz]

I was just reading one of the docs Sissy posted. "Effects of vibration on pilots".

 

Pretty scary stuff when you read the physiological effects. Anybody ever have bloody stool and testicular pain ? (Please, don't answer. I really don't need to know...)

[Blackmac]

You can send all the info in the world to WCB in Ontario, only the info thay have on file is what they are concerned with.

 

One of my Doctors was a retired Maj General, actually the surgeon general retired from the services.

 

One of his jobs was advising NASA.

 

He was also a rated fixed wing and helicopter pilot.

 

My licence (TC) doctor was an ex co-jo on the first all jet transport a/c flown by the RCAF. Just a few people that submitted papers, to no avail.

 

As I said, interesting to deal with WCB, ONTARIOOOOOOOO.

 

Cheers, Don

[collective]

Rosco

Point well taken. This may also help to weed out bogus claims which could lean toward smaller increases in WCB share payments. Who knows. But again, thats not what I am here after. However, I do know of what you speak.

 

As of today, at least a few people at WCB in Edmonton have a better, if not different, understanding of what we do. We, the WCB tech's and myself, are going out flying again next wed. After that we will put what we have found on paper. After that, it may be filed under "CS" (as was said in some movie 100 years ago) or used as a tool. The pont remains, the information will be available, where it was not before. I will suggest sharing with other provinces. But, I think you know what I mean when I say "Provincial Government to Provincial Government...Don't hold your breath..."

 

Anyone with suggestions, please feel free. I do appreciate it.

 

Skidz..Whaaatttttt? Now thats just wrong. Havn't come acorss that section yet. May just skip over it. But I guess it's what was asked for. Thanks again folks...I will let you know what comes of all this. In the mean time if you can think of anything that may help..please feel free.

[Skidz]

Skidz..Whaaatttttt? Now thats just wrong. Havn't come acorss that section yet. May just skip over it.

 

From "Effects of vibration on pilots"

 

http://www.vnh.org/FSManual/02/04Vibration.html

 

(...)

Effects from 2 to 12 Hz.

 

Tolerance in this frequency range is usually limited by substernal or subcostal chest pain, with thresholds at approximately 1 to 2 Gz and 2 to 3 Gx. The etiology of the pain is the same for both axes of vibration:displacement of the abdominal and thoracic viscera induces stretching of the chest wall, with torsion at the costochondral junctions of the ribs. Dyspnea is the second most common symptom in this range, apparently with the same etiology as chest pain. Centrally induced hyperventilation can be produced by vibrations around two axes at acceleration amplitudes above 0.5 G in the range of 1 to 10 Hz.

 

Cardiovascular effects are maximized in Gz+gz (i.e. a Gz-acceleration environment with interposing +gz vibration) at 3 to 6 Hz and in Gx+gx at 6 to 10 Hz. The changes seen are increases in heart rate, arterial blood pressure, central venous pressure, and cardiac output; these are accompanied by a corresponding decrease in peripheral resistance. These changes all resemble nonspecific exercise responses.

 

Abdominal discomfort and testicular pain are common complaints due to stretching of viscera and force applied to the spermatic cord, respectively.

 

The headache commonly associated with this frequency range has several explanations. In a Gz+gz environment, the mechanical forces are not well attenuated by the skeletal system. In a Gz+gz environment, the head is forced out of phase with the headrest and repeatedly impacts against it. In Gx+gy environments, the problem is the same only more so; strain, spasm, and soreness of the neck are added to the symptoms.

 

Finally, bloody stools, transient albuminuria, and transient hematuria are occasionally seen in helicopter pilots flying heavy schedules. Such symptoms are attributed to vibration, and they usually disappear after a few days rest(...)

 

Gee, I just can't wait...

[collective]

Skidz;

I was just kidden' ...But thanks for the clearification. That manual is full of interesting stuff.

 

####...I know what you mean..I am not actualy on a quest. All I am doing is bringing some facts to the attention of those who make decisions regarding someone in our field who finds it necessary to deal with them (they asked). No earth shattering stuff or changes...just some clearification. I don't know it will make any difference..but, here's hoping.

In the mean time, if you can add anything.. ya know, some part of your job that may result in a particular injury or at least uncomfortable situation. I would appreciate it. The more they know...well...as I said...Here's hoping.

[GoldMember]

collective,

 

A couple of things come to mind with respect to health outside of the helicopter: camp beds and maybe having to tent it on fires in Alberta.

 

After spending a few hours in any machine, the last thing my back needs is a ****** 20 year old camp bed to sleep on. I usually wind up sleeping on the floor if I'm to be at a forestry/fire camp for any duration. Now, WCB may not be able to change anything but it might be something to point out with the idea being to show them that we (drivers and wrenches) sometimes have less than adequate living arangements. The same goes for AFS demanding that we come equiped with portable living quarters (tents).

 

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a complaint, I've willingly on many occasions stayed in tents and other alternative types of accomodations, it's just that a guy gets kinda tired after a couple of weeks on the ground or in a culvert (don't ask).