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Guest Jeremy Law

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It's probably all an honest mistake, I'll bet no one knew the rules of the forum.

 

 

 

"But the plans were on display . . ."

"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."

"That's the display department."

"With a torch."

"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."

"So had the stairs."

"But look, you found the notice, didn't you?"

"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard."

 

 

sb

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Interesting that we say we have the right and the freedom to say what we want...

 

"This is what I believe!"

"This is what I think!"

"This is how I feel about that!"

"This is what that person is like!"

"This is how that company operates, pays, thinks, acts, etc"

 

Signed:

 

Anonymous

 

How would it differ if we said...

 

"This is what I believe!"

"This is what I think!"

"This is how I feel about that!"

"This is what that person is like!"

"This is how that company operates, pays, thinks, acts, etc"

 

Signed:

 

Keith Westfall

Yellowhead Helicopters

 

 

I'm thinking without the protection of a hidden identity, we just might think about what we say on some of these forums. Sitting around the table in the bar, some of the same things get said and you don't see everyone holding up the menu to hide behind!

 

But if you're going to put it into print (which the forum is) best we choose our words more carefully, perhaps more than we do in a drunken conversation around the table.

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, (and most people have at least one about most things!) but does that mean that we can hide behind our secret identity and say 'anything' we want, thinking we are free from any accountability?

 

I think not...

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The forums here on Vertical are pretty entertaining.....for the most part.

 

I believe that the intent of the Vertical Forum is and should be entertaining, but more importantly, it should be a way and means to openly discuss issues that reflect concerns/current issues that are important to anyone associated with this industry.

 

Despite our differences of opinions, everyone in this industry plays a part, some big, some small, in shaping how we conduct our day to day activities.

 

This forum is a mixture of everyone.

 

It truly is a representation of the Canadian helicopter industry, and includes the good, the bad, and more recently, the ugly.

 

I believe it is time to return this forum to a higher standard. Too many good people have been turned off by all the crap that seems to descend into almost every thread, and have simply opted to sit on the side lines or close accounts and leave this site.

 

If you want to be part of the solution, sign your real name to your posts.

 

We all have unique opinions and views of topics that come up on these forums and I believe that every one of these opinions brings something to the discussion. All of us are on a continuing education program through our entire lives, and if you really think you know it all, you still have something to learn.

 

Posters who hide behind anonymous names are a reality of the internet. It allows people to make comments and accusations without consequence.

 

These can be entertaining. They can be bizarre. They can also be very damaging to individuals and companies.

 

A forum discussion using real names is going to be far more educational and realistic than a conversation between “Fluffy69 and BigStickWillie.”

 

If you post inflammatory or libelous statements using an alias, other posters should be able to request that your true identity be revealed. I am not a computer expert, but I would think this could be accomplished along the same lines as the rating system now in place.

 

Some will say that using an alias is their right and part of the internet. No argument there.

 

Feel free to make entertaining statements, but don’t cross that line where individuals or companies are slandered. It reflects very poorly on this industry and in the end, it hurts us all.

 

Going forward, I would invite the true helicopter people on this site to come back, stand up and be counted. Your opinions, experience and comments are valued.

 

Wayne Finn

Finnair Ltd.

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Thanks, Wayne. Well said.

 

I also think that anonymity should be the refuge of those with serious complaints and a genuine fear of retribution.

 

On the other hand it's just an internet forum. There'll be idiots and wise a$$es and some wisdom too. What else should we expect?

 

How does Pprune keep their conversations focused?

 

Dick Mitten

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Thanks, Wayne. Well said.

 

I also think that anonymity should be the refuge of those with serious complaints and a genuine fear of retribution.

 

On the other hand it's just an internet forum. There'll be idiots and wise a$$es and some wisdom too. What else should we expect?

 

How does Pprune keep their conversations focused?

 

Dick Mitten

 

 

Ha ha, focused? Have you not been around an group or pilots or engineers;) ,,am sure you have Dick, so you would know why the conversations are unfocused,,,look an eagle!!!

 

Good to see some sense of promise fellas!

 

Paul Kendall

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Finnair, i agree that some of the childish posts and insults might stop but it would be very artificial, who in their right mind would tell their boss or someone in a position to hire (or not hire) them in the future that they disagree with their opinion. This forum is a cross section of our industry and as such you are going to get a mix of good people, middle of the road types and mangy coyotes too. Sure you can as an employee sign your name if all you are going to do is kiss up to people in authority but who will tell the boss of company X with 30, 10 or even two machines they are out to lunch even if they clearly are? I mean really, with the competition for jobs being what it is (over the ups AND downs) most employees especially starting out can't show any back bone at all and we all know it, that's what makes me laugh about this industry, most guys strut around like big men and pick on their underlings (perhaps because they themselves are picked on in various ways and also there is an over abundance of "Napoleon Syndrome" out there too! Big LOL) and kiss a$$ like a champ to anyone they see as potentially giving them an advantage but won't stand up for what is morally right. That is what is really lacking in this and most other industries, morals, they just don't seem to go together.

 

I remember a "while back" being threatened with dismissal (basically because wanted to do the best job for the company and stood behind my concept) and then was told if i disagreed again there would be a review of my employment situation. I reminded my "supervisor" that he said if it happened again i would be fired. An awkward silence followed and i looked him in the eye and he could see that i would stand my ground and that my principals mattered more to me than the job. Not everyone in this position i understand can afford to stand their ground. I did this too when i was first starting out and it cost me a job but i can sleep at night, not be ashamed of who i am and i don't need to go around and call others down or pick on them to make myself feel "good" about myself. (my idea of how to complete a job differed from a more "senior" yet younger employee, yet after i left for my tour the job was changed around and done as i had suggested. Of course there wasn't another meeting held when i got back where they admitted that to me... )

 

I think i would rather have an anonymous forum and have honest opinions posted (with a few jacka$$es thrown in) than a bunch of people just posting what they think owners or supervisors want to hear to make them like you, let's save that for "real" life. Can you see my point about how signing your name takes away most honesty, openness or truthfulness? Let the readers decide if someones idea has credibility no matter if they are an owner, ops manager or just starting out as ground crew somewhere.

 

Maybe what's needed is another forum ( i know, i know, can we afford to water down this one down?) where people can go and sign their real names if they choose to using a different account. (small shrug) Just an idea.

 

Whitestone

 

PS Dimit thanks, i do have very big shoulders both figuratively and literally, was not getting upset just throwing it back, that guy makes me laugh, the poor little fellow.

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Well it's actually nice to see some respectful dialog and honest opinions here, you are all making good points here! I have been working in this industry for 35 years now. I have enjoyed it all, the good, the bad, and the ugly! Show me an industry or corporation that does not have politics and sleaze bags . It comes down too one thing.... how "you" want too deal with it !

Thick skin helps, but being knowledgable and professional is one way of mitigating the politics around you, along with the douchebags wether they are a boss, co- worker or even a customer.... don't play their childish games!

If you don't like your work environment, do your job graciously while looking for greener pastures. As much negativity as I read on any forum, there are good companies and good people out there.

I go back and help out with a flying school on occasion and get asked quite frequently by the students, " do you have any regrets, and would you do it all again given a second chance".

My answer is always the same..... " in a heartbeat" !

Cheers and safe flying all...... Bob Kellie

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Personally, I'm against airing dirty laundry in public. And there's always some dirty laundry because none of us are perfect. There are plenty of appropriate channels and this ain't one of them. It may not be so for everyone, but for me this is more about respect than fear.

 

That said, I'm trying hard to understand the fearful part, and suppose that to "air" is human, and 'tis better to air than to allow fouled laundry to moulder far from the light of day.

 

Sheesh, I need another cuppa coffee!

 

DM

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Internet forums are private entities. They don't HAVE to provide freedom of expression etc if they don't want to.

 

I also wish to remain anonymous. There are enough crazies out there. why should I make it easy for them to eff up my ####? I don't believe in the "Oh yeah??? Well try saying that to my face!!" mentality.

 

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