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I read you loud and clear 407D!!!

Sorry Jet B, I haven't had the "pleasure", if you will, to work for Mustang but I have to say that I don't buy this "we give better service" crap, if the employee turnaround is what it is.

There's no way a large operator (20+ a/c) can give better service than a <20 a/c company, with the exception of Alpine and Great Slave Helicopters.

Good service in this business has everything to do with crew/customer relations. ]


I respect and understand what Jetbox had to say about customer relations being important to a companies success. The thing is, any perceived turnover that we have had lately is due to what Spragclutch said, losing dead weight etc. However some of the people left last year after the big switch over when Airborne sold the seismic division to Mustang. Like I said before, I liked the previous management too and we lost some good people along the way.


I have been working with the same clients for 5 years now and they always get the best customer service the company can give. Alot of the work we have is because of good aircrew and engineers. But you won't last long without some good marketing skills in management, and that we have.


I'm not trying to glorify Mustang, it has it's problems like any other company, and I'm not offended at all by any posts made in here. I only spoke up so that any good driver looking for winter work isn't going to shy away just because one or two people don't like frenchmen.


Whether you are happy with your job or not has more to do with your attitude than it does with the company you work for...


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Someone's experience at an individual company is a very personal matter. We're all different so what makes one person happy actually pisses others off. Take a schedule for instance. If I really like 28 and 14, how am I supposed to get along with guys that insist on 14 and 14?


There are people who get so involved with the finer points of who they're working for they'll develop ulcers when the office is redecorated without their input. There are others who couldn't care less if there was an engine installed in their helicopter provided they were paid what they wanted every month.


As for things like "rates in the toilet...etc", I've never understood why people working in the field get so worked up about rates when, ostensibly, we're supposed to be concentrating on flying. However, having suffered many times from the same malady I can only conclude it's because we all have a lot of pride in what we do and don't want to have that reduced by the thought that our company "doesn't play well with others".


There is so much misinformation out there, that unless you've actually seen the invoice you don't have any idea what the customer is actually paying. I was once told by a customer what our hourly rate was, and how it was the lowest rate he'd paid in ten years. I, being a sensitive fellow, phoned the office to see if that could be true... thankfully they didn't tell me to "shut up and keep flying", they informed me of the day rate that added $600/hr to the hourly rate at current utilization. Apparently the party manager was ignorant of this, or chose not to mention it in an attempt to get me worked up.


Just recently I was told by a guy what his company was charging hourly for a 212 and how they couldn't possibly be making money. But when I asked him what the expected volume was, how many hours it had flown on fires, how many hours at tariff they needed to amortize all their overhead, blah blah blah, he had no idea. It isn't good enough to say "we get $2500 an hour on fires and those guys over at Chisel Charter Helicopters are only charging $1900 to move drills... they must be losing their shirts!" It is so much more complex than that, so I try not to worry about things I'm not involved in.


The point I'm trying to make is that I make a conscious effort to make sure that my part of the company is something to take pride in. And if that same level of commitment isn't exhibited at the office level, over the course of time Darwinism will make itself known... as it has many times in the past.


As helipinch remarked about 6 months ago, "...the best company to work for? Wherever I am at the time..."



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Hey Guys/Gals


I've been around here for a while now. More so observing from afar. At first, I found the posts here to be informative and light hearted in nature. I've found this site to be great entertainment. Certainly more entertaining than the TV in the hotel. I've been finding myself to be more tempted and obligated to post more recently.


This thread in particular has been refreshing in the end, as a few voices of reason have come through to improve the integrity of the site as a whole. From my perspective, I find this thread to have the properties of the school yard bully phenomenon. Have you noticed that the posts began with the spiewing of a leader, followed up by the snide comments and heckling from his followers. But as soon as thoes being bullied stood up for themselves the others backed down.


Come on guys, high shcool should be far behind us. All of us here share a love of something very intimate to us. It's funny how we can show up to a fire, work closely together, go out for beers and have a great time living this lifestyle. But, give a guy a little annonymity and look out.


Play nice, place safe!!!

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Yes, I agree HV. And if the company you work for is not the best, and find alot of whine with your cheese, time to say goodbye. My biggest complaint working with pilots is the huge amount of bashing they do to there own company and not doing anything about it. It doesn't take a huge imagination to estimate the effect on morale.


As far as the goings on a other companies, I'll save it for you when you get back to the land of ice and snow or as lately warm and blow.



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We are in a somewhat different era of our industry nowadays and it all helps to generate what is being addresed here. I've had the good fortune or misfortune (depending on one's opinion) to be involved in a lot of maga-projects that utilized a lot of a/c over the decades. On these projects, regardless of who works for who, what they fly or the competition between various companies....all make an attempt to "get along". The reason being that you might want to change companies for some reason and walk across the pad or push your roller there someday soon. Tomorrow morning, perhaps you have a problem and are u/s and just maybe your engineer has everything he needs, BUT that bloody "O-ring" that didn't get packed or was used recently. There's one coming in-bound from company, but until then you're grounded. Your grounded until the opposing engineer says "****, I got one of those...here..use it and give me yours when you get it". You're up and flying soon after and everybody is a hero. Sometimes one medium will put down their fuelling pump for everyone to use if they want....some do and some don't...but everyone appreciates the effort and you're basically all working as a team, BUT everyone also knows who's writing the paycheques and CERTAIN things are NEVER discussed within earshot of the competition. "Slagging" is verboten because you or the engineer may have to rely at some point on them for some kind of assistance over the course of 2-6 years on the same project. One is very careful not to "sh*t in one's nest" in otherwards because "it's a long alley without trash cans" and one of these days.........


The closest we get to that otherwise is on a large forest fire and it's still not the same as mentioned above becuase it lasts weeks and not years. I understand the points being raised on both sides, but it's really just a factor of the times we live in and all we should try to do is maybe keep the slagging from both points of view "down to a dull roar" as much as possible. Practically everyone here on the site is a "good sh*t" and we don't really have to beat-up on each other that much....or the other guy's company. Besides, from experience I can tell most that 10 years from now most of us will be working for other companies than we are now......except me..... in 10 years I'll be with Blackmac on the side-lines waiting for like of 407 Driver to join us and cheering from the "peanut gallery". :lol:

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Haven't been here in awhile, but having spent time at Mustang and being new in the industry (31 years in April) I guess I'd like to offer my 2 cents. When I was there all the management staff either the DOM, Ops manager, Chief Pilot etc.. all took their marching orders from the BIG "B".....Benoit Allard. All was fine for about a year then Benoit decided he wanted management to move in a different direction. At that point I did not like what I was seeing, not from the average guys like me (pilots and engineers) but from managements new marching directive they rec'd from Ben-oint.


His new agenda had a profound effect on maintenanance and when it began to place cost over safety I elected quitely to depart without burning any bridges, this was not to be confused with "cost effective maintenance" without waste and max productivity. I have elected to leave my finger in it's holster and watch from a far.


However, with a few of the comments that I observed that related to "lack of communication" that does sound disturbing, one of the dirty dozen that also would combine Stress, Teamwork, Distraction and Norms to name a few.


Just my two cents......good luck guys.



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Maggie ---it's also the type of guys we are that contributes to the "mindset" about a whole buch of issues. We dont' realize or appreciate sometimes how big that difference is, even after we've been in the business for quite some time.


A statement was made to me eons ago, that I considered at the time as B.S, but on reflection over the years I've found it to be more true than false, about our "mindset" in general. The statement was this:......"The difference between a professional R/W driver and a professional F/W driver is that when planning a trip, the F/W driver intends to and sees no problem with going from A to B.......the trip will be succesful. The R/W driver will state the same and at the same time say or think "Ya, BUT" because he knows of too many times when it wasn't quite that simple for a whole bunch of reasons and he'll give you a lot of valid ones". Again, that "mindset" helps to contribute a lot to the way that we think about other things also. It's as though we are always waiting to be "screwed-over" by someone, something, machinery or our company.......and we've been right more often than we've been wrong. :lol::lol:

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