Weight And Balance Log Entry For Door Removal?

[helidude]

The ski/cargo basket does qualify as elementary maintenance under the "operational equipment designed for quick install and removal", if it's installed with quick pins.

[Helirider212]

Whirlygig...Thanks,,I think you have made it fairly clear,,,so lets see if we are on the same page and I will ask one more thing.

 

If one removes the ski basket it need to have a log book entry and if done with quick pins the pilot can do this under elementary tasks. Correct ?

If one takes the 4 man out it also needs to be noted in the log book under maintenance action, This I think I get ,,,but instead of listing the revised M/T weight and arm /moment,,,can it not say ,,,,,ski basket removed W/B addendum # 4 in effect. This is how I interpret what you have said quoted from CARS....?? There is not a need to write out the long form W/B calc the adendum # in effect does that. ??

[drkrider]

A lot depends on how your company manuals are written, remember that MCM training you took?

 

A lot of companies use a Amendment / configuration system.

 

Amendments being modifications or installations that are beyond the scope and intent of elementary maintenance tasks. I.e install the fixed provisions for a ski basket.

 

Configurations are changes to the operational configuration of the aircraft I.e. installing the ski basket on to the fixed provisions that the engineer all ready installed using pip pins as per the STC.

 

So the entry would look something like this depending on the Journey Logs being used.

 

Left hand ski basket installed Weigh and Balance configuration 1-B now in effect new empty weight 1938.3 at 53". Joe Pilot CH123456

 

1 = Current weight and balance amendment

B = Configuration

 

This is a perfectly legal way to do it and lessens the chance of some one screwing up the math of a temporary W&B amendment.

 

If your company manuals allow I suppose you could just say configuration B in effect, but is 6 words really that much more to write?

 

Also having the numbers in the entry allows you or the next pilot to do your load calcs that your supposed to be doing with out having to dig out the flight manual.

 

In the past I've had the "discussion" with TC about weight and balance and there is no such thing as a negligible change as far as the paperwork is concerned... Even if the pilots lunch kit makes a bigger difference to the W&B, an entry still needs to be made when changing the configuration or modifying the aircraft. Technically speaking there should be a W&B amendment when the pip pins were originally installed on the 206 facilitating the removal of the door as an elementary maintenance task.

 

Sean

Whirlygig...Thanks,,I think you have made it fairly clear,,,so lets see if we are on the same page and I will ask one more thing.

 

If one removes the ski basket it need to have a log book entry and if done with quick pins the pilot can do this under elementary tasks. Correct ?

If one takes the 4 man out it also needs to be noted in the log book under maintenance action, This I think I get ,,,but instead of listing the revised M/T weight and arm /moment,,,can it not say ,,,,,ski basket removed W/B addendum # 4 in effect. This is how I interpret what you have said quoted from CARS....?? There is not a need to write out the long form W/B calc the adendum # in effect does that. ??

[whirlygig]

Whirlygig...Thanks,,I think you have made it fairly clear,,,so lets see if we are on the same page and I will ask one more thing.

 

If one removes the ski basket it need to have a log book entry and if done with quick pins the pilot can do this under elementary tasks. Correct ?

If one takes the 4 man out it also needs to be noted in the log book under maintenance action, This I think I get ,,,but instead of listing the revised M/T weight and arm /moment,,,can it not say ,,,,,ski basket removed W/B addendum # 4 in effect. This is how I interpret what you have said quoted from CARS....?? There is not a need to write out the long form W/B calc the adendum # in effect does that. ??

 

Hello,

 

Drkrider answered you already but you still need to write the empty weight c of g. The adendum (configuration) just allows you to not make a perminant change to the original weight and balance report (via an amendment). It is not aimed at making your entry shorter or easier. If it weren't for configurations we would all be at W&B amendment 4,532.72, and tracking mistakes or the history of the amendments would be nearly impossible.

 

Hope this makes sense.

[whirlygig]

The ski/cargo basket does qualify as elementary maintenance under the "operational equipment designed for quick install and removal", if it's installed with quick pins.

 

That is only true if there was a separate configuration in place for clamps only installed, and I can't say I have ever seen that. An engineer is required to install the clamps and also to install the required placards (VNE, loading etc.). It is ok for the dart clamps to be installed without the basket if this system is used (separate weights are given in the STC for this purpose), but for the most part the quick pins are for installing ground handling wheels.

 

Just food for thought.

[flingwinger]

Do you have an stc for those pip pins on the 206 doors?

 

I've been told even if you have a pre calculated addendum or config you still need to write in the aircraft empty weight and CG.

 

"config no 3 In effect, aircraft w&b 2400lbs @ 123.4" long, 0.12" lat" would suffice

[Jammed left]

Whirlygig...Thanks,,I think you have made it fairly clear,,,so lets see if we are on the same page and I will ask one more thing.

 

If one removes the ski basket it need to have a log book entry and if done with quick pins the pilot can do this under elementary tasks. Correct ?

If one takes the 4 man out it also needs to be noted in the log book under maintenance action, This I think I get ,,,but instead of listing the revised M/T weight and arm /moment,,,can it not say ,,,,,ski basket removed W/B addendum # 4 in effect. This is how I interpret what you have said quoted from CARS....?? There is not a need to write out the long form W/B calc the adendum # in effect does that. ??

 

There really is no need to complicate this...the CARs are pretty clear...change the config of the aircraft...change the c of g in the log book....do elementary tasks...note it in the log book. The CARs weren't written with operational convenience in mind...the were written to cover the legal aspects of flying. if you spend any time looking at the CARs, the intent is clear....how you or your company can manage that with your Ops manual...is the only way to bring operational convenience into the matter.

[helidude]

That is only true if there was a separate configuration in place for clamps only installed, and I can't say I have ever seen that. An engineer is required to install the clamps and also to install the required placards (VNE, loading etc.). It is ok for the dart clamps to be installed without the basket if this system is used (separate weights are given in the STC for this purpose), but for the most part the quick pins are for installing ground handling wheels.

 

Just food for thought.

 

 

Yep, the clamps are considered "fixed provisions" and their weight is accounted for in the configurations that don't include the basket IF they were added to the empty weight of the aircraft at their initial installation. Those baskets were designed for quick install and removal for operational convenience along with easy ground handling.