Flight Duty Time Limitations In Other Jurisdictions

[Skidz]

Heard recently that customer insurance companies are starting to stick their noses into f&dt. Their rationale is that it doesn't make sense that their employées rotate every x days to avoid accidents caused by fatigue, but the flight crews can go 42/5.

 

Eventually, we can expect to have tours that will match those imposed upon the people we transport.

 

Dunno how most operators will deal with crew shortage issues...

[Phil Croucher]

Fred, in Uk it is also 800 max flying hours per year, and it is even tied down per day, depending on what time of day you start. On average it is 10 hours maximum duty hours per day, with 7 flying hours within that. The original rules were mostly written by Douglas Bader and a committee who had very little idea of what commercial operations were all about.

 

Having flown in both jurisdictions, I must say that I am impressed with how there very few accidents related to fatigue in Canada, given that you can do 42 days - it is obviously left to the common sense of pilots. And of course, the summer months are often the only times you can make a living, so there has to be a nod to that, and some of the other peculiar conditions in Canada (remote places, etc).

 

Where I think that TC should concentrate any efforts is that, where you get a day off, it should be sacrosanct - it shouldn't just mean "a day not flying". Part of the benefit of a day off is knowing you're going to get one, and that allows you to handle a lot more pressure than normal, and when you get there and find you now have to drive 4 hours to Winnipeg (and back) to pick up spares, you are not a happy bunny. It is just not on. Also, after a 14-hour day, you should just be allowed to stop, rather than "demonstrate your character" by stacking all the equipment for another 2 hours.

 

When you're on a camp and away from home without all your home comforts, you may as well work - I find I get more fatigued if I'm just sitting around. And what about crop spraying? Instead of spreading out in a nice comfortable tent on a warm summer's night and actually getting 6-8 hours' sleep, they would rather you drove 2 hours over crap roads to a roach hotel, get only 2 hours' sleep and drive back again. This should be left to common sense as well.

 

I think the present system works substantially well - it just needs a little tweak here and there.

 

Phil

[oil pressure]

Unsure but have there been any recent accidents/incidents attributed to fatigue?

Are they trying to fix something that isn't broken?

 

It seems the majority of accidents are somehow related to decisions made by the crew, single or multi crew. We all know that there are many things that lead to those decisions and are not as simple as 'the pilot screwed up'. I guess fatigue could be one of them. So, allthough not directly noticeable, fatigue could very well be a attributed in some way. I still believe being able to work 42 consecutive 14 hour days is a bit ridiculous. To me a 14 hour day is a long day! Maybe I am getting lazy in my old age.

On a different note in that regard, knowing that decisions are often very key leading up to accidents, it always struck me odd that TC's requirement for PDM training is only every 3 years, and most operators have noticed the relevance of it and do it annually and incorporate it in their SMS systems in some way.

 

Geoff Reed

[the pup]

What companies out there do have good rotations?

[FREDDIE]

I agree Oil Pressure 14 hours is a long day. But it what frosts me is these large companies with averaging policies that are disrespectful of employees. I know of a couple of operators that allow 2 hours recorded more than flight time. Example you start at 7 am and work until 7 pm and fly 2 hours you can accumulate 4 hours. Takes a long time to build up the 2080 hours for the year. I feel am required at work from 7 to 7 that's 12 hours in my world. I have even heard of time sitting in the bush swatting bugs as a$$$ time.

 

Steve Schulte

 

If I have confused anybody please pm.

[cjg]

Freddie, I work for a small company who very recently adopted the averaging system. It was explained to me that if I'm at the hangar from 0700 to 1900 (12hrs) and flew for 2 hours and worked on ops gear for 1 hour,I"m allowed to record 3 hours worked plus an extra 1 hour for pre and post flight duties (DI and log book entries ect..or a half hour on each end) for a grand total of 4 hours worked. Not 12hrs!!!! In other words, I'm only allowed to record actual worked hours. If I'm on a mountain top waiting for my customers to finish up on a repeater, and it takes 6 hours to do so,I cannot record that time as 6 hours worked towards the 2080hrs.They consider that a$$ time. That part bogals my mind..If I'm not at home serving my beautiful wife mojito's on the back porch but instead being on a mountain top waiting on customers then what the heck am I doing? If I end up working over the 2080hrs per year they'll sit me at home because they refuse to pay overtime. By law they have that choice. I certainly don't agree with this. Now this forces the pilot to make a decision....Do I fudge the "Worked Hours" in fear of sitting me and losing flight pay? Hmmmm....what to do??? Freddie, you do have it right.