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I just think of full time fire fighters who show up fo work and proptly go to bed for 8 hours

When the shift is done and there are no fires try and tell them htey did not work that day!!!


That won't happen because they belong to an association..........


the IAFF

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I know most of the younger set and the many pedants among us will cry "Dinosaur!" but I recall, oh, so fondly, the days before the regulators decided that what was good for the airlines was good for the rest of us.


As professional aviators we were available to our employers as required with no need for stipulating what was 'standby' and what comprised the 'duty day.' We flew as much as required and each of us got the amount of rest that we individually needed, unless we spent too long swapping lies or draining various glasses and bottles.


I've seen no statistics that demonstrate accidents related to inadequate rest are any more or less prevalent than they've ever been, but what I have seen is a gradual and persistent decline of honor and mutual respect among our community, both of which are often reflected in this forum.


Pilots, I think most of us would admit, are highly independent and fairly egotistical. While these attributes have, largely, proven to be strengths in the past, they now seem to be noticeably less so, as there's considerably more negativity and 'group mentality' among us than was the case a few decades ago.


I believe the goals of SMS are worthy, as are the efforts of responsible operators and truly dedicated regulators (and, yes, there actually are quite a few) who do their best within the constraints of an all too human-derived system to improve safety and aviation in general. But the many who deliberately, or less consciously, undermine the welfare of the industry by pursuing personal agendas and vendettas bring shame to it and to themselves.


Here's to better days gone by and, hopefully, to come.

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It's pathedic..plain and simple!!

Pathetic is right! But who is pathetic? The owners for serving it up or the aircrew for devouring it?


It's just another way to squeeze a few more hours/dollars out of engineers and pilots. I know aircrew who work VFR in Canada who pull a 42ish day shift and have their boss tell them that a no fly day is a CAR day off while they are in camp! One of the companies i fly around work a one and one (Yes it's up North!) and shake their head at the BS pilots put up with. Other industries triple crew when compared to helicopters. Some of the skilled workers i fly around make $40/ hour with overtime, only work one week on, one week off and the world has not come to an end. It will only stop and conditions improve when we demand a shift length and pay scale that is appropriate for this day and age and our "profession". All these gloom and doom predictions of the demise of the helicopter industry if we should change the duty times is nothing short of fear mongering on the part of those who are stuck in the 1960's and have been abusing their staff for far too long.


But hey, it is done to us because we don't stand up and say no, because we don't have a collective [no pun intended!] voice. To many years of lowering the bar, each one of us facing management alone and hammering out a "good" deal for ourselves. The only thing helicopter crew are good at is screwing each other over (much to the amusement and benefit of our employers) and thinking that they themselves have actually benefited from it. If you hurt a fellow employee in putting yourself at a perceived advantage you have only hurt everyone including yourself but not many are smart enough to see that. That brings us to where we are today, at the bottom of the food chain, most of us only getting paid when we fly not when we are at work, no time off for family ("Hey you knew what you signed up for..." and what some "A" - whole once told me after i drove for a day and a half for a job that disappeared; "That's helicopters!" [no actually that's an owner and his wife with no integrity!!! and of course not a thought of any compensation for my time or travel costs]).


It seems there are two groups that don't want a helicopter employees association, one is the owners who have it pretty good, one employee doing the hours of work of two and the other group that is opposed is a percentage of established pilots or engineers who have enough experience and or connections to secure a good paying job (the majority of this group are the ones who have trampled on their peers to get where they are). Why should these people look out for anyone but themselves i mean no one looked out for them so F everyone else now that they are "making" it. But really they aren't, still away from home the whole summer and possibly more and unemployed with nothing to fall back on (of course there are exceptions) at a moments notice.


Yes let's join HAC or whatever they are called. Can you imagine? What a ludicrous suggestion! Sure i will join a a benevolent organisation that is made up of members who's primary interest is to enslave it's employees and let my concerns about being asked to work shifts that are too long and compensation that is unfair be known. Ha, ha ha, what a joke, how long do you think most of you would have a job? The person who made that suggestion (was it in this post or another?) is a complete __________________ (you can fill in the blank)!


There is an old quote: "Behind every great fortune there is a crime." How many owners have made a great fortune and have not fairly shared it with those who worked so hard for them and sacrificed so much to get them where they are today? Yes the "Boss" is such a hard worker (and some are) but most have gotten to where they are by not compensating their employees fairly to the point where most are embarrassed to tell their friends how "much" they make (no i drive a piece of cr4p car and vacation in Gull Lake Sk. because i like to fly under the radar). How many guys have i run into who have their "hobby job" while their spouse pulls in the big bucks and subsidises (in essence) their husbands boss? Hey guy who's wife is a Dr., Hey guy who's wife is a judge.... and on and on.


We can change things but that would take banding together and having a collective agreement and stop working for hours flown or getting a percentage of hours flown, what ever the case is and getting paid for being at work not just for the summer but for the whole year or at least making enough money to make it through the year.


just a few thoughts,



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Grasshopper not that I fall on the same side of the fence as Whitestone, I don't think all companies and management are evil.


However I think you are looking at aviations past with rose colored glasses on. I am in my fifties and have been in aviation since my teens, so I probably classified as a relic too. Maybe you do, but I don't think we should have to sell out soul to be employed in it. I have no desire to return to starting my shift in AprIl and finishing it in October with no days off and not necessarily great money

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