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United we stand, divided we fall and it seems like all we have been doing is falling since i got into this business. This thread is a foreshadowing of why there will never be a pilots association and why we will continue to take what is offered not what is fair. When i first started flying an old timer told me that roughly 70% of the guys in this industry have no integrity or morals, at the time though i respected him i did not believe him, now i know better.


It does not matter if what Fred L is presenting is not bang on or even close, take a look at the work he did and if channeled properly what could become of it. As a group we are so short sighted... I look at all the back stabbing i have experienced on the job and it does not surprise me that it goes on here too, it's just helicopter pilots doing what they do best.

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So Whitestone, do you think this guy is actually a pilot? He has yet to stand up and provide any info on himself and the website information is at best written 15 to 20 years ago. If he is not a pilot in good standing he may be a chump and his writing is very familiar to a supposed geologist who had a beef with pilots a few years ago. Until he provides some info on his actual being am afraid is just garbage in garbage out. Once determined that he is a pilot then will provide positive feedback. This is the internet and reality is only what gets proven.

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Wow. Fred, Pilot5, all I can say is I must have been working in some other industry for the past 21 years 'cause I've always spoken my mind and been able to enjoy my work and my life. I've been paid and treated fairly, never been back stabbed, and I've met some interesting people and seen some unique places.


Pretty sure I'm not on any "Do Not Hire" black list either despite having disagreements with management and customers over the years. It's all in how you handle it. If you think the world is out to get you, then you'll probably react badly and blame every negative situation on someone else, failing to see that maybe you were, or are, a part of the problem.


And finally, just to preclude any silly soap box grandstanding, the fact that I enjoy my job doesn't mean I'm some blind little fool that has taken a sip of the proverbial Kool-Aid rendering me unable to see the "truth" as Pilot5 and Fred Lewis preach it.


Kevin McCormick

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So the generator being in camp is inhumane?.

What about workers on tugs they can hear the engine 24 hours a day and sleep within 15 feet of it.

Or long haul truckers its inhumane to make them sleep within 7 feet of an engine.

Or loggers on a float camp no generator there.


Fred if the generator is that much of an issue don't be a helicopter pilot or don't take a camp shift but don't torture the rest of us who love the job and the industry because you can't pull it together. When you regulate people to the lowest denomination the smart and talented ones leave.

I have spent years in camps some good some ok but I enjoyed it all the same because its the salt of life, keeps it interesting

Do us all a favour and find another industry to torture

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Question Fred... ?


Are you retired from this business...? ... Those of us that are not have to be careful not to be too opinionated...(no matter what we know or believe the truth is)


John... You know your doctor said to avoid dangerous drug combinations... You are a prophet of the self fulfilling kind... I finally agree you are on a blacklist... But unfortunately for you, you are the only one on it... And you wrote it... And you're the only one who doesn't realize this...


And, along with BK, I cannot stop laughing... And by the way, anyone is free to disagree with me and they frequently do... and I am not afraid to admit I'm wrong (thankfully it's only every other year:)... And no one suffers for it... So go have another laxative shake mixed with whisky and start working on the new association with Fred...



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Never had a problem falling asleep to the sound of the generator and its gentle hum, usually had my "walkman" on, and yes I said "walkman" so I am that old!!. Once when working nights we were to close to the core shack and the saw kept us up , a nice convo with the camp manager and voila our tent was moved. Camp work isn't everyone's cup of tea and no one is forced to do it (to my knowledge at least) many different options for helicopter pilots in Canada that's the beauty of the job!

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Thank -you Fred and Kevin for your discussion and that’s what this about isn't it, open minded nonjudgmental discussion to strengthen the group, promote safety and preserve the well-being of our Industry.P5 and Oil pressure say it best.

I agree the 42/5 was an example and no one’s disputing the fact that change is needed; you have 700 pilots agreeing on that as pointed out by VH in a petition. Which I support 100% change is needed.

That’s amazing in its own right getting so many going the same way at the same time. Before Vertical and internet it was done before anyone had a say and you and I were out doing what everyone thought was best, while most have never been.

The regs are opted for change due to a large Industry outcry. Change was needed cause what they could do legally was Dangerous and people paid dearly, proven a tired pilot is a dangerous pilot.

We have a chance for change through the efforts of individuals who are passionate about safety and taking the time and effort to represent us all and again for that I’m in support. VH in particular, THX.

No scientist, guess that’s why I’m a Helicopter pilot but no one can tell me you fly the same and use the decision making process at the end of a six week tour or end of a 14 hr. day as opposed to the start of the day or tour.

Once again we all seem to agree change is needed 700 industry voices.

What I fear for is we have a chance for change and are petitioning against it. Make sense?

Not disagreeing that some of the recommendations are not relevant to the cause but would like to know when we pass on it where do we go from here or does it stay the same, the devil you know or the devil you don’t. just some more Food for thought.

Someone has also put a lot of time and effort into these recommendations, Transport fatigue studies etc. They must have some valid points? Or are we smarter?

Now to get the buzz out of my pedals, VH you mentioned your management but not looking at it from that perspective. Well your comment has me confused you said:

If I don't like how I'm being treated I can very easily move over to a different company. And some companies could be abusive and others not. That’s why we’re here to begin with isn’t it to mitigate that.

Correct me if I’m wrong but rules, regulations, constitutions, amendments, laws are written to rule out or in its least best minimize abuses, in Canada anyway.

No snippets guys and not looking for a fight, following you and supporting you, just want to make sure we have thought this through and not going to shut down the good engine.

Helicopter, airplane, balloon, kite, off- shore, on-shore, VFR/IFR, away from home is away from home, long days are long days,

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Hi all...I have been in the business for 40 years now...still flying...I know Fred and worked with him for 3 summers...he is definitely a real person and is still flying for a buddy of mine who I will not devulge ... who also has been in the business for a very long time and is known to a lot of folks in the business...I could not tell you how long Fred has been flying as I only met him in 2000 but he is still at it today..thanks...pottsy

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