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John... You know your doctor said to avoid dangerous drug combinations... You are a prophet of the self fulfilling kind... I finally agree you are on a blacklist... But unfortunately for you, you are the only one on it... And you wrote it... And you're the only one who doesn't realize this...

 

And, along with BK, I cannot stop laughing... And by the way, anyone is free to disagree with me and they frequently do... and I am not afraid to admit I'm wrong (thankfully it's only every other year:)... And no one suffers for it... So go have another laxative shake mixed with whisky and start working on the new association with Fred...

 

HV

 

 

Yes Yes Cory, heard it all before....

 

The point is that with managerial bullying the suggestion of any form of free will speech,opinion is not going to be achieved..

 

Those who do are black listed...Case in point....

 

The whole process make for some nice window dressing though..

 

Well done long live Mr. Asch

 

P5

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United we stand, divided we fall and it seems like all we have been doing is falling since i got into this business. This thread is a foreshadowing of why there will never be a pilots association and why we will continue to take what is offered not what is fair. When i first started flying an old timer told me that roughly 70% of the guys in this industry have no integrity or morals, at the time though i respected him i did not believe him, now i know better.

 

It does not matter if what Fred L is presenting is not bang on or even close, take a look at the work he did and if channeled properly what could become of it. As a group we are so short sighted... I look at all the back stabbing i have experienced on the job and it does not surprise me that it goes on here too, it's just helicopter pilots doing what they do best.

I am hybrid and been in this disfunctional aviation business for 35+ years and I approve this message. lol I hope no one outside the industry reads these forums.......

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I guess we can all agree that Canada is made of compromises, EH! :D

If, one day, such new regulation would take place, some degree of flexibility will have to be included.

Such flexibility might come through new Ops Specs.

If not, we will kiss goodbye many pilots and most small operators, especially the one man/one machine.

Is this the real intent? “Degreasing” the industry? We hear all the time “there are too many Operators and not enough work….

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Whitestone, on 24 Jan 2013 - 22:13, said:snapback.png

United we stand, divided we fall and it seems like all we have been doing is falling since i got into this business. This thread is a foreshadowing of why there will never be a pilots association and why we will continue to take what is offered not what is fair. When i first started flying an old timer told me that roughly 70% of the guys in this industry have no integrity or morals, at the time though i respected him i did not believe him, now i know better.

It does not matter if what Fred L is presenting is not bang on or even close, take a look at the work he did and if channeled properly what could become of it. As a group we are so short sighted... I look at all the back stabbing i have experienced on the job and it does not surprise me that it goes on here too, it's just helicopter pilots doing what they do best.


I am hybrid and been in this disfunctional aviation business for 35+ years and I approve this message. lol I hope no one outside the industry reads these forums.......

 

 

 

 

Yes all true, unless you live in a world of complete delusion, willfull blindness and complete disengeniuos thinking.

Im sure HV and few others here will completely disagree with this despite in your face facts.. This is human nature we tend to decide on what we want our reality to be then we modify the surounding facts to fit the picture. Willfull blindness...

 

The old timer was 100% correct...

 

I guess you learn to accept it after a while.....and carry on...

 

P5

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It's extremely unfortunate that many of you have chosen to shoot the messenger - namely Mr. Lewis - by means of insults, rather than take an opportunity to refute intelligently what he has written.

 

For those of you who crazily deny that Mr. Lewis and his association will ever represent you, you might want to consider that if you're not one who consented to contributing to his particular survey, then, in fact, his survey does not represent you.

 

On the other hand, if you responded to the survey done on this web site, you are now a member of an association dedicated to making changes to the regulations, and/or, are part of an association of like-minded individuals.

 

Duh.

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It's extremely unfortunate that many of you have chosen to shoot the messenger - namely Mr. Lewis - by means of insults, rather than take an opportunity to refute intelligently what he has written.

 

For those of you who crazily deny that Mr. Lewis and his association will ever represent you, you might want to consider that if you're not one who consented to contributing to his particular survey, then, in fact, his survey does not represent you.

 

On the other hand, if you responded to the survey done on this web site, you are now a member of an association dedicated to making changes to the regulations, and/or, are part of an association of like-minded individuals.

 

Duh.

Yes it is unfortunate, normally bullies do this by way of insulting the person and not adressing the facts... ( how clever- its also grouped with inuendo and catchy buzz words) Unfortunately there are many of these types around... I commend Mr. Lewis for sticking his neck out on this thing, the folks who want to keep the duty hrs up and working hours high are mostly mgmt types. I would like to see a more reasonable work day 10-12 hrs max and 14 days rotations....

 

Good luck

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I would like to believe that most pilots we send to the field are professional and adult. Unfortunately, being on the receiving end of messages and on goings from the field, it appears to be otherwise at times. When this occurs, there is usually a crew change in the works, because that crew member has failed to self-identify fatigue and that has become apparent through communications from the field to management. "He's tired, let's get him out of there."

 

Personally 21 days for me, unless there are extenuating circumstances and i'm not feeling fatigue. That allows a personal and family life and it puts a guard up against fatigue for me. I have been fatigued after one week. 14 hours a day encompasses paperwork and looking after the machine. If you are too tired to inspect and tie down the machine properly and do paperwork accurately, you are encountering fatigue. I oppose long tours and i'm tired of seeing "zombies" come through the hangar after their tour. Zombie= frazzled and irrational. I don't want that risk out there.

 

I did sign the petition (HV's), its not perfect, but it can buy time. The best defences against fatigue are 1) Professional, assertive pilots. 2) Responsible and Accountable Management and to the least..... 3) Legislation.

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Hazy: do you really think legislation will prevent stupidity?

This is our society's problem where some think legislations will make individuals use common sense and become responsible.

I totally disagree with the legislative babysitter attitude.

Time to grow up.

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I think legislation is the last resort, after pilots and management fail. I don't feel the need to change the legislation at this time. I am comfortable with the people that I work with to be able to say the right thing everytime. That's my situation.

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Batiskaf, I should answer you directly. I don't think you can legislate out stupidity. In the post that you responded to, I wrote that I signed the petition. I don't agree with the legislation presented and the petition may allow us time to tailor it to our area of the aviation industry. I do believe as individuals we are responsible to identify fatigue in ourselves and others and act appropriately. To close the last hole in the chain, there has to be legislation.

 

As for growing up, I think I've done quite a bit in the last few years and I will continue to do so. I encourage others to do the same. Cheers.

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