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Twin Helix

Safety Companies, Insurers And The Low-Time Pilot

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You make plenty of good points which I agree with so no need to get touchy and defensive. I was referring to these points I've quoted. It's no secret people do this. I know a guy who went from 300 hrs. to 2000 hrs. in a month and has since had 2 accidents. We don't need to encourage this type of behaviour.

 

 

From what i have seen the best way to get into a seat here in Canada whether you are a Canadian citizen or Auzzi or Kiwi is to LIE about your time, most people will just look the other way. As long as you bring back the machine in one piece, it doesn't have to look pretty.

 

 

 

 

 


There are only two ways to get experience, one way to to actually fly it and the other is to just write it in, hope to BS your way into a seat and start flying and not scare yourself or your customers too much before you figure things out or kill yourself and your passengers because you are in way over your head.

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There is a whole lot more expensive places to live. Right now a one bedroom Apt is 700 a month but you won't live in the bright lights. Just cause you bought your license doesn't mean you get Hero pay and you don't have to sacrifice. Sorry but this is the truth.

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Unlike Daz I've yet to encounter anyone who said I was too old

Probably because most Canadians and Canadian employers are familiar with section 15 of The Charter and it's applications. Something the logger and his employer might want to read up on.

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We have hired LOTS of guys that were over the 28 - 30 the last low time guy we trained was 40 plus like I said there are always exceptions. But the younger guys usually come with less outside obligations. iE: kids, mortgage, car/s payment, wife and family responsibilities.

Younger low timers are more likely to relocate and are able to live on a beginners salary until they get enough time

Some older low timers accept the change In vocation but not the cut in pay, added work hours, or demotion in rank required to achieve things post licensing. Age is only a consideration offset by attitude and work ethic.

 

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By the way the charter apples to who we hire not who we choose to spend thousands of dollars training and mentoring.

we have hired some young and old low timers and not trained them because of poor attitude/ work ethic.

Regardless of the charter that's still our choice And nothing is promised to them when we hire that is crystal clear.

Just because you get hired at McDonald's doesn't mean you'll end up manager !

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Guest plumber

We have hired LOTS of guys that were over the 28 - 30 the last low time guy we trained was 40 plus like I said there are always exceptions. But the younger guys usually come with less outside obligations. iE: kids, mortgage, car/s payment, wife and family responsibilities. Younger low timers are more likely to relocate and are able to live on a beginners salary until they get enough time Some older low timers accept the change In vocation but not the cut in pay, added work hours, or demotion in rank required to achieve things post licensing. Age is only a consideration offset by attitude and work ethic.

I get it! All I'm saying is for myself who is not a high timer at 2300 hrs started at 35 and learn something almost everyday you should base your hiring on the individual not the age!

Be straight about what the person should expect working for you. The reason I started at 35 I had to save up for it. No rich parents or delusions of grandure!

It took me about 6 years to talk myself into taking the leap and knew it was going to be hard. I don't regret a second but would have been screwed if that was the mentality of most companies.

 

I think what you might not like is that an older person might stand up for his or her self when they smell a rat?!? Or as you put it set in their ways.

 

I've worked with alot of great people in this industry (some bad) but I can tell you I never based my opinion on someone by their age just their attitude.

 

And as far as the McDonalds quote goes you also have a couple thousand hours on a toilet it don't make you a Plumber.

 

All the best and fly safe!

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But the younger guys usually come with less outside obligations. iE: kids, mortgage, car/s payment, wife and family responsibilities. Younger low timers are more likely to relocate and are able to live on a beginners salary until they get enough time Some older low timers accept the change In vocation but not the cut in pay, added work hours, or demotion in rank required to achieve things post licensing.

 

This made me smile - I guess I'm a non-typical old guy. No mortgage, no car payment, no kids, ready to relocate (and so is my girl), and after 20+ years of seasonal ski industry work, I've learned how to live fairly well on next to nothing. Some lowtimer jobs actually pay MORE than what I earn now!

 

 

 

Age is only a consideration offset by attitude and work ethic.

 

 

Winner winner chicken dinner. B)

 

There are certainly older guys that have issues with the tasks expected of an entry-level job, but young guys can have that, too. I submit that it's all about attitude and perspective, not the numbers on your birth certificate.

 

 

 

A lot of the customer's workers wanted to fly with me rather than the "greenhorn", just `cause I looked more experienced. :lol:

 

Haha, I've heard stuff like this, too. Someone once assumed I was the owner of the sightseeing operation I was flying at. On an other occasion a (very theatrical) client saw my young co-worker firing up the machine and exclaimed "Him?! HE'S flying?? He's too young! I wanna fly with THIS guy!" - and pointed at me. My response was a polite and amused "Are you sure? He's better than me." :P

 

- Darren

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You make plenty of good points which I agree with so no need to get touchy and defensive. I was referring to these points I've quoted. It's no secret people do this. I know a guy who went from 300 hrs. to 2000 hrs. in a month and has since had 2 accidents. We don't need to encourage this type of behaviour.

 

 

 

You can take what i have written out of context and give it what ever spin you want. I did not and do not condone padding log books i was merely pointing out that the practice is rampant in our industry and most people look the other way. My comments were meant to be an indictment of the system in which there are ever fewer opportunities for low timers forcing some to do something they might otherwise not do (of course there are those who would anyway...). I keep bringing this up because as long as there is a "work around" to actually flying the time more and more people will choose to go this way rather than inch their way forward thus creating a much less safe working environment (and not a level playing field). Do you honestly think that my mentioning that padding log books is a common practice is going to inspire someone who would otherwise not have done so to do that? What i am hoping is that maybe someone with the power to make some changes takes the bull by the horns and opens up a few slots at the entry level, maybe in oil and gas...

 

W..

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Owners of helo companies need to share some of the blame for the gradual escalation of hours a pilot needs to land in a well site. Oil companies keep asking for more and more hours to do their boring and simple jobs. Helo companies keep giving them what they want because they want to keep their business.If the helo company would tell the customers that ask for higher time pilots that it is going to cost them more per hour or per day to have that higher time guy jockey them around, things would change. It would change for the better because the high time guy would get paid what they are worth. The low time pilot would also benefit because these oil companies are also cost concious. They will soon figure out they can get the same job done with a low time pilot for less money. When I started flying, I flew lots of hours for oil companies and got by quite well. The customer and employer were both happy.

 

mohave green,

 

I have to agree with you about companies having to share the blame for the rise in hour requirements.

 

As far as undermining each other goes, companies play the same game with each other that pilots do. Pilots go behind each others backs to discredit each other so that their co-workers get kicked off flying jobs or are not even in the running for them. So companies do the same thing to each other, they go to a customer and say we have more experienced pilots than the other guys, why would you fly with someone who is just starting out when you could fly with us? And to top it off you have the consultants hammering their own nails in the coffin.

As with most things it's all about the here and now not about the future, (that will take care of it's self...). Hoping that the companies will band together and form a united front to tackle this problem of unrealistic hour requirements is about as far fetched as a pilots association for the same reasons: short term gain, basic survival (because who is going to let their guard down first?) and perhaps greed.

 

I really do hope that for the sake of the industry, for Canadian low timers AND our customers that we find a way of addressing this very real and serious problem.

 

As far as age goes, in my books it is a positive, not saying that there are not younger low hour guys who would make good employees but older usually means a proven track record with life experience, judgment and the ability to be analytical. Darksidelogger might have had a few bad experiences and that has made him a bit gun shy (?). Sure there are some older guys who can only see it their way but then you have some younger ones who can not take any advice or direction either. Over all for me a pilot who comes into the industry in their 30's or even 40's brings a wealth of experience and usually they are not such cowboys either so you feel more comfortable sending them out with a 1 to 3 million dollar machine and know they won't use it as their own play thing (as much). Older pilots too, having done a few things in their lives know what they want, it's not just on a whim that they did their license so they are going to be driven to give it their all. On the other hand he's right that in most cases the younger ones have less "baggage" and liabilities, it's a tough nut to crack.

 

Maybe some of the HAC movers and shakers will read this thread and pick up the ball and form a working group that will pitch the idea of low timer jobs for low timers to their customers. (if they have not already done so.) :)

 

Thanks for the laugh at the end of your post plumber.

 

W.

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This made me smile - I guess I'm a non-typical old guy. No mortgage, no car payment, no kids, ready to relocate (and so is my girl), and after 20+ years of seasonal ski industry work, I've learned how to live fairly well on next to nothing. Some lowtimer jobs actually pay MORE than what I earn now!

 

 

 

 

 

Winner winner chicken dinner. B)

 

There are certainly older guys that have issues with the tasks expected of an entry-level job, but young guys can have that, too. I submit that it's all about attitude and perspective, not the numbers on your birth certificate.

 

 

 

 

Haha, I've heard stuff like this, too. Someone once assumed I was the owner of the sightseeing operation I was flying at. On an other occasion a (very theatrical) client saw my young co-worker firing up the machine and exclaimed "Him?! HE'S flying?? He's too young! I wanna fly with THIS guy!" - and pointed at me. My response was a polite and amused "Are you sure? He's better than me." :P

 

- Darren

For the life of me, I can,t figure out why some company hasn't hired you Darren? You have the right attitude and ask all the right questions. I look forward to the day when you tell us how you scared the crap out of yourself and say, "I will never do that again." lol

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