Foreign Pilots

[pilot5]

Canada is a land of immigrants. That being said come on in and immigrate pay crazy taxes find a Canadian girl and yur all good. Do not come work the season go home and do it again the following year in and out . This takes scarce seasonal opportunities from Canadians that are here year round with families to support. For the most part where the problem lies is with operators who bend the rules and know full well what tjey ate doing. In addition what's with the under 31 rule? What if yur 40 or 50. Seems unfair to those who got a late start. The system is not perfect but in the last few years imporovrmrnt has been made to protect Canadian jobs. As the years pass the demand will only increase for skilled pilots and the industry must start brining the low time guys. I can only see the gap widening as the older generation continues out to pasture in greater numbers.

 

So come immigrate to Canada and enjoy our wondfull taxes and balmy winters.

 

P5

[Whitestone]

Why is it that some companies have no foreign workers and others have six or seven? I was was at a certain location in Canada a while back and it was like i had arrived "down under". "G' day mate! " It's not that they are doing anything more specialized than anyone else so why do they have so many non Canadian employees? Is it that they treat their Canadian employees like garbage and/or pay a substandard wage or rotation time and when no one wants to work for them they cry the blues "we can't find anyone!" and get the visas. Why is it that these companies keep getting away with this year after year? Perhaps the "visa department" should conduct an exit interview with the permitted foreign employees AFTER they are no longer under the threat of loosing their position and get the real story?

I have no problem with workers coming in if there is a real skill shortage and they are being paid what a Canadian of similar skill level would get and work a similar rotation, etc. Lets keep entry level jobs for Canadian low timers.

 

Fly safe and have a good Spring if it ever comes...

 

W.

[hybrid]

I just want to be clear, I am not in favour of opening up the doors to foreign pilots coming into Canada. But I keep on hearing that they are taking up jobs preventing low timers from getting a start. Perhaps it is just me, but I have never met any foreigner who got a job in Canada with 100 hours. Has anyone else?

 

I think the least amount of experience that I have seen one with is around 500 hours. In 2007 quite a few we're coming over when there was a lot of mineral exploration going on. The company I was with at the time could not find enough Canadian pilots to fill the jobs that were coming in. A lot of that (non-drills) work was government work, obviously a 100 hour pilot could not fill that void. A note that it was all in mountainous terrain as well. That company did bring on some 100 hour guys, but it would take at least 3 years to get them anywhere near 500 hours.

 

The term that I continually hear from owners is "entitlement", that would explain why some owners are reluctant to hire younger low time guys. It took me 4 years to get my first job as a commercial pilot, that 4 years was spent on the ground on maintenance, freight and coming in on many of my days off to get a .3 or .4.

 

My point is that a foreigner is not going to get a 100 hour entry level job in Canada. If you are a 100 pilot, find an employer that will take a chance on you, but be prepared to put in the time to get there. If you a 100 hour guy and don't agree with me, I really am not interested in hearing about it, I doubt anyone else is either.

[Freefall]

There is only one thing that brings in 100 hr pilots to this industry since we have no apprenticeship programs or anything and it is is pressure to fill seats.

 

We all know that customer requirements and insurance requirements keep many low time capable jobs filled with higher time pilots.

 

Filling the excessive demand for high time, experienced pilots with pilots from abroad fills the vacuum that is necessary to bring low timers into the industry.

[Whitestone]

I do hear what hybrid says about not being able to find workers who will put in an honest day's work and it sickens me to see how some people "steal" from their employers. A coffee shop or a discount retailer is not the same as a helicopter company but there is some crossover with the work culture. People who come from poorer countries know what it's like to do without and all those "undesirable" jobs get taken by foreigners. Are we going to follow the footsteps of Germany with the Turks, the USA with the Mexicans, England and France with their former African colonials? (and many more examples...) We all know how that is turning out. But helicopters is not coffee shop, for the one you need a +/- $65,000 education and for the other you might formerly have been a goat herder.

On the one hand i want to support our country and our pilots but do have sympathy with the companies too with regards to the lazy kids(and older guys) that think touching a broom or sorting the ops gear or even showing up on time is beneath them. I have never been afraid of hard work, my first job other than throwing hay bales for a neighbor starting when i was 11 was as a janitor when i was 15 and i have been paying my own way ever since, not always doing the glamorous job but making a living. I remember being told not too long ago by a coworker not to come in so early or start working right away because then they will expect "us" all to do it. Hey buddy, if you are reading this, you are a worthless piece of trash and i am glad i don't have to pick up the slack for you anymore (have another smoke break, looser...).

End of rant... (what's yours?) LOL

I started out as heli logging ground crew then worked a fertilizer bagging machine, drove a parts van, swept more square feet of hangar than i can count, polished and cleaned and if i can say one thing it's that anyone i have worked for remembers me and not because i slacked off but because i got things done, worked without being asked or needing an eye kept on me.

W.

PS hybrid, entry level isn't just 100 hours...

[Skidz]

I just want to be clear, I am not in favour of opening up the doors to foreign pilots coming into Canada. But I keep on hearing that they are taking up jobs preventing low timers from getting a start. Perhaps it is just me, but I have never met any foreigner who got a job in Canada with 100 hours. Has anyone else?

 

I think the least amount of experience that I have seen one with is around 500 hours. In 2007 quite a few we're coming over when there was a lot of mineral exploration going on. The company I was with at the time could not find enough Canadian pilots to fill the jobs that were coming in. A lot of that (non-drills) work was government work, obviously a 100 hour pilot could not fill that void. A note that it was all in mountainous terrain as well. That company did bring on some 100 hour guys, but it would take at least 3 years to get them anywhere near 500 hours.

 

The term that I continually hear from owners is "entitlement", that would explain why some owners are reluctant to hire younger low time guys. It took me 4 years to get my first job as a commercial pilot, that 4 years was spent on the ground on maintenance, freight and coming in on many of my days off to get a .3 or .4.

 

My point is that a foreigner is not going to get a 100 hour entry level job in Canada. If you are a 100 pilot, find an employer that will take a chance on you, but be prepared to put in the time to get there. If you a 100 hour guy and don't agree with me, I really am not interested in hearing about it, I doubt anyone else is either.

 

The problem with foreign pilots (and in particular guys who aren't high-timers) is that its somewhat difficult to verify their logbooks. Like I said in another thread, I once had a guy with an Aussi CPL(H) come through for a conversion who supposedly had 2000 hours of "cattle mustering". The guy couldn't do a 360 on the tail or do a coordinated turn while maintaining altitude. It took him 30 hours of flight training to get the recommendation for his check ride, which he failed on the first go. If there was a process whereby a foreign pilot had to present an audited logbook before getting that work visa, I think there would be fewer of them issued to guys in the 500-3000 hour range.

 

I've also heard there's a certain place in LA where you can buy as many hours as you want without actually flying them. Funny way to "build time"...

 

Let's face it, a 100-hour pilot with good hands and a good head on his/her shoulders can out-fly a 500-hour pilot with mediocre skills any day. Operators don't care, and I'm willing to bet many CPs have flown with guys and just known it was impossible for them to have as much experience as they claimed and took them on anyways because they could use them. They can send the guy with the cooked logbook on more entry-level jobs than they can the 100-hour guy who's been honest.

[ridgeline]

Whitestone, Canada is a melting pot, unless you're from a "First Nations" background, you too, came from elsewhere. And give me a break...!!... Because we fly makes us no better than that person serving you your coffee or a 'goat herder' ... its a job, thats it!

 

It is that it is a brutal industry to get into. Anyone who chose to get a license and didn't do their research prior... well, tough luck. As far as foreign pilots go, the first question most of them ask is "how much will I fly"... most Canadians ask "what do you pay, what is my time off" etc. Period!

 

But more to the point, a check ride is a check ride... they tell all, and if they don't, perhaps the check pilot shouldn't be giving them. If a pilot walks in looking for work, and they meet the hour and skill requirements, they get the job, that simple.

[hybrid]

 

The problem with foreign pilots (and in particular guys who aren't high-timers) is that its somewhat difficult to verify their logbooks. Like I said in another thread, I once had a guy with an Aussi CPL(H) come through for a conversion who supposedly had 2000 hours of "cattle mustering". The guy couldn't do a 360 on the tail or do a coordinated turn while maintaining altitude. It took him 30 hours of flight training to get the recommendation for his check ride, which he failed on the first go. If there was a process whereby a foreign pilot had to present an audited logbook before getting that work visa, I think there would be fewer of them issued to guys in the 500-3000 hour range.

 

I've also heard there's a certain place in LA where you can buy as many hours as you want without actually flying them. Funny way to "build time"...

 

Let's face it, a 100-hour pilot with good hands and a good head on his/her shoulders can out-fly a 500-hour pilot with mediocre skills any day. Operators don't care, and I'm willing to bet many CPs have flown with guys and just known it was impossible for them to have as much experience as they claimed and took them on anyways because they could use them. They can send the guy with the cooked logbook on more entry-level jobs than they can the 100-hour guy who's been honest.

Yes, that happens Skidz. There were a few guys

(Aussies) that came through the aforementioned company, they were rejected. No CP in his right mind will hire them if the skill level isn't there.

 

I have personally checked out 10,000 hour pilots that were not capable of flying utility/bush/mountain ops.. Total time is not the end all. You have to admit that taking on a 100 hour pilot is risky though. Will they stay after you invest 3 years into them, it's costly if they leave. On the same token, I don't agree with bonds either.

 

The thread is drifting a bit, but my point for new pilots is, work hard, don't complain and most of all be patient! It's tough at times, but perseverance pays off in the end. If course there are companies that will take advantage of that, a little research will expose them. For Gods sake don't look on the Internet to figure out who they are!

 

 

[Whitestone]

Whitestone, Canada is a melting pot, unless you're from a "First Nations" background, you too, came from elsewhere. And give me a break...!!... Because we fly makes us no better than that person serving you your coffee or a 'goat herder' ... its a job, thats it!

 

It is that it is a brutal industry to get into. Anyone who chose to get a license and didn't do their research prior... well, tough luck. As far as foreign pilots go, the first question most of them ask is "how much will I fly"... most Canadians ask "what do you pay, what is my time off" etc. Period!

 

But more to the point, a check ride is a check ride... they tell all, and if they don't, perhaps the check pilot shouldn't be giving them. If a pilot walks in looking for work, and they meet the hour and skill requirements, they get the job, that simple.

 

I was just trying to point out that there was a difference between the kind of foreign worker that is employed at a coffee franchise and the kind that possess a pilots license. I guess at one time we all came from somewhere else and if you go back far enough even the so called Natives. I don't think i suggested that because we fly that we are better, just that we have different skills, we could serve coffee but someone who does not have a pilots license can not legally fly a helicopter. Thought i would point out the obvious since you chose to make insinuations about my comments and twist my words.

Pssst... i used to herd livestock so i am not looking down on anyone.

[Whitestone]

BUT ridgeline, i will agree, it is a VERY difficult industry to get into, a fixed wing buddy of mine likened it to someone pursuing a dream of becoming a Hollywood actor or actress. There are perhaps as few slots available and it's dog eat dog but maybe that can be said of a lot of industries (someone mentioned firefighters in another thread). Besides hard work the most important thing is perseverance, you have to want it more than the other guy!

 

W.