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donnybrook

Hac Letter Concerning Foreign Workers

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I encourage everyone who is against foriegn hires in these slower times to write Chris Alexander (The new Immagration minister) in response to Mr. Jones's letter. I already know of several pilots who have written letters (E-mails don't seem to get a response). Also CC it to the opposition party members. If you really want a response send copies of it to a larger newspaper. This really makes them nervous!

I've worked with some great guys from over seas and wish them no ill will. They are just doing what they need to to survive but in these slower times we need to protect our livelyhood and jobs. Canada is a country people live in for lifestyle. I enjoy my job but its not my life. I can't see myself competing for a job with a guy who will work 365 days a year, all of it in Fort Knowwhere.

 

And CrashBing its cheaper for companies when the said pilot lives in the town so they don't have to pay the travel or accomodations. I personally can't speak for the wages but I'm sure some of the shadier companies will pay less if they can get away with it.

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Or.... people could stop sitting at home feeling sorry for themselvs and blaming everybody else why they can't get a job. Wasting time e-mailing complaints to goverment officials when you could be out looking for work and stop being such a victom.

 

Like sombody posted, go to the work, leave starbucks behind, get involved. There are adds all over for work and it is OCTOBER! It may take time, you might have to accept somthing lower in the meantime, but the work is there for the right person.

 

I am sure many are going to bombard me for this, go ahead, when your done with your complaining e-mails, you can come and waste more time complaining on Vertical, might be able to pass the entire day like this if your lucky.

 

I have NEVER even been close to "out of work" therefore I deffinetly do not feel my job is theatened by anybody. I could care less who comes to work. The only thing I care abbout is that they pull their own weight, have a good attitude, and do a good job for the client so we can have the next contract. I can think of at least 2 companies I could phone right now and be working by next week, but I am loyal to who I work for so here I stay..working.

 

I am not a high time pilot, I just fly around in a good ol single engine astar. Maybe get on twins someday, it will come.

 

after reading this, many of you will notice I can bairly even spell, yet I always have work. Work hard, Give a S*^t, and have some pride in the quality of your work.

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Hi Brent,

Here is my opinion- I have nothing against experienced pilots coming temporarily and welcome you to come fly in our amazing country. However, I have seen foreign workers filling the 500-1000hr positions because they are willing to work for pennies. These are the positions we have to keep Canadians in otherwise there is no room for our local pilots to get the experience they need. But how does the government or industry draw the line on an experience level for foreign admission? It's a tough one.

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And to go with what Sirlandsalot has said- I agree, the work is out there you just need to be proactive. I have never been out of work in 10 years, although I've moved all over the country for it.

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I agree with flingwinger. No issues with EXPERIENCED foreign pilots working here. And this applies to all nationalities, be they from down under, Europe, Asia, South America, whatever... I've seen "lower tier" operators who will deliberately post openings for 500 hour pilots in the most obscur publications (like the local paper the small town where they're located) so no one applies, and then get approval for foreign pilots.

 

They don't necessarily pay them lower wages, however, they usually don't pay for their travel, and these guys don't take many days off. It's common for wx and nr days to be logged as days off for fd. I saw one operator this summer who has 4 machines. He hires 4 foreign pilots and his a/c are crewed all season long. The worst part is most of these guys are happy with the arrangement. They make the most money in the shortest time possible and then go home for the winter. The other big plus with foreigners on work permits is that they're locked in. If the operator lies or changes their conditions of employment once they're here, they can't quit and go work elsewhere. Their work permit is only valid with that employer. These are also the same operators who will demand their workers sign training bonds and withhold a significant portion of their pay until the end of the season, which the pilot will forfiet should he depart early for any reason.

 

Operators who do this have no interest in hiring Canadians because they can't get away with this crap with us.

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As a very low time pilot (to newly licensed pilots the term low-time referring to 1000 hours seems shocking) I see the problem as a lack of mechanisms in place to get homegrown pilots up in hours and experience so that we can reduce the need for foreign pilots.

 

A foreign pilot is an asset to the industry when they're filling a legitimate vacancy. A foreign pilot is a burden on the long-term health of our industry when they're used in lieu of structuring minimums so that Canadian pilots can get flying. Talk to your SMS, talk to your clients and explain that there are tons of Canadian pilots waiting in the wings that can't work because they keep racheting up the required hours for chasing pipelines, powerline patrols and glorified cab driving. SMS limits give operators legitimate deficits in 'qualified' applicants which makes their requests for foreign worker permits valid.

 

If the industry could bring minimums back in check we would see a shift away from the demand for (so many) foreign pilots.

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The minute someone says "lets have fair rotations and fair pay for the risks we take and the skills we bring to the job" there are people who call them whiners right away. Yeah, we all got into flying because we expected to be home every night and we are all addicted to and expect a $6 cup of franchised coffee every morning... What a stupid thing to say.

 

And me? Did three driving tours equaling more than 40,000 km looking for work when i was starting out and killed one truck in the process. I have relocated many times in the years since i started in 1990 and have only missed one year of flying. I have it good right now but that is no reason not to support those coming up. I think it's a favorite pass time in our and maybe all industries to stop others from progressing. (?)

Good posts Skidz and Twin Helix, i agree 100%.

 

W.

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As a very low time pilot (to newly licensed pilots the term low-time referring to 1000 hours seems shocking) I see the problem as a lack of mechanisms in place to get homegrown pilots up in hours and experience so that we can reduce the need for foreign pilots.

 

A foreign pilot is an asset to the industry when they're filling a legitimate vacancy. A foreign pilot is a burden on the long-term health of our industry when they're used in lieu of structuring minimums so that Canadian pilots can get flying. Talk to your SMS, talk to your clients and explain that there are tons of Canadian pilots waiting in the wings that can't work because they keep racheting up the required hours for chasing pipelines, powerline patrols and glorified cab driving. SMS limits give operators legitimate deficits in 'qualified' applicants which makes their requests for foreign worker permits valid.

 

If the industry could bring minimums back in check we would see a shift away from the demand for (so many) foreign pilots.

 

I started flying about ten years ago, and back then a low-time pilot was anyone with less than 1000 hours. Nowadays, 1500 is the "magic number" for regular work, but now some companies are asking for as much as 2500 hours for any work they give out, including basic lease-to-lease flying, which is completely ridiculous... :o

 

Unfortunately, these customers get presented statistics by "aviation consultants" that show that even 1500 hour pilots make bonehead mistakes during the simplest of missions (how's that saying go: "to err is human"?), so they up the mins, `cause they don't want any accidents, which is understandable, albeit naive. No matter how much experience a pilot has, human factors dictate that there is always a risk of error. If that same logic were to be applied to people driving their company vehicles, they'd have a hard time finding employees...

 

People say we need to convince customers to lower minimums, but I disagree. We need to move from a strait hours-based evaluation system to a competency-based evaluation system to determine a pilot's suitability for a task. HAC has been working on this for some time now, with apparently little success convincing customers... Those interested in that topic can go to the HAC website and read some of the docs in the Guidelines and Best Practices section. This would be the best means of getting those lowtimers with adequate skills, attitude and common sense flying, and by the same token weed out some of the wannabees who think that with a piece of paper with the ink still wet on it they're ready to go heliskiing... :rolleyes:

 

I know its rough to get started in this crazy industry, and it isn't getting any easier. I often meet lowtimers who seem to be at their wits end, losing patience with the system, and who've worked so hard to get where they are. It astonishes me that so many people nowadays continue to endure so much bs to live the dream. This industry needs to wake up and do something about it, otherwise the situation will only get worse. I really hate being told I have to stretch my tour by a few days and then go back to work early because there aren't enough "qualified" pilots available in the pool... <_<

 

And that's the end of my rant for the day... :lol:

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Or.... people could stop sitting at home feeling sorry for themselvs and blaming everybody else why they can't get a job. Wasting time e-mailing complaints to goverment officials when you could be out looking for work and stop being such a victom.

 

Like sombody posted, go to the work, leave starbucks behind, get involved. There are adds all over for work and it is OCTOBER! It may take time, you might have to accept somthing lower in the meantime, but the work is there for the right person.

 

I am sure many are going to bombard me for this, go ahead, when your done with your complaining e-mails, you can come and waste more time complaining on Vertical, might be able to pass the entire day like this if your lucky.

 

I have NEVER even been close to "out of work" therefore I deffinetly do not feel my job is theatened by anybody. I could care less who comes to work. The only thing I care abbout is that they pull their own weight, have a good attitude, and do a good job for the client so we can have the next contract. I can think of at least 2 companies I could phone right now and be working by next week, but I am loyal to who I work for so here I stay..working.

 

I am not a high time pilot, I just fly around in a good ol single engine astar. Maybe get on twins someday, it will come.

 

after reading this, many of you will notice I can bairly even spell, yet I always have work. Work hard, Give a S*^t, and have some pride in the quality of your work.

 

I said write a letter not e-mail. I'm happily employed thanks very much. I'm guessing you might not be a Canadian?!? ( just a guess) Sorry you think I'm whining actually I could care less what you think.

Sticking up for our own guys and girls doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. But this industry seems to have its share of people with the attitude "I'm working so screw everyone else" Sad really. I guess that working hard and giving a #### about what you do should be rewarded with low pay and bad tours but hey you can tell the girls that you're a pilot in those dive northern pubs.

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Well, you almost got it right.....

 

Actually I am a Canadian. Always could use more money, but get by fine. Worked 154 days last year on 3 and 3. I am happily married, no need to talk to girls about work. Anyways I don't find too many northern pubs down here in South America, where I am busy taking these guys jobs.

 

Of course good to stick up for our own, and of course one can not stereotype everybody. However I do see a lot of low timers with an incredible sense of entitlement. I recall my training class, funny how almost 10 years later, 3 out of 12 are working. I remember the others, and I am not surprised in the slightest they did not make it.

 

I am always happy to see a good guy get an opportunity, and when I work with guy that has a great attitude, I always do what I can from recommendations to simple pep talks. I, unlike many, like this industry, and am happy to be in it. I have had several careers and none have been as good as this industry. Human nature and definitely Pilot nature to complain.

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