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donnybrook

Hac Letter Concerning Foreign Workers

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Hey Daz do you realize that if more foriegn workers were not brought in that industry would be forced to lower mins. No? Wages would probably go up. One of the companies mentioned offers a pilot @$2800 a month salary and one didn't honor a contract because they were slow?!?

 

I'm happy where I work and love what I do. I also have learned that in our society and especially this industry look out for yourself. Most of the mentioned companies are always looking for a reason and the ones who aren't? (well I'll never leave ) Good luck! You're gonna need it!

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Someone mentioned the job postings in the media, be it print or on line and why some of these openings have not been filled. There might be a few reasons, it might just be a ploy on the part of the company posting the ad to get a Labor Market Opinion for a foreign worker permit and any applications are summarily discarded. Or it could be that the management at the company has a bad reputation and no one in their right mind wants to work for them. Or it could be that they are not offering enough money for the kind of work, the length of the tour or they break promises and no one trusts them anymore. It's a small industry and we all know the bad owners.
Yes shakey, you are absolutely right, stop foreign workers from filling those low hour positions and you will soon see a turnaround in the policy of hour requirements. Simple fact is they need the work done and if they can't find someone with 2000 hours they will take someone with 1000 and if they can't find one with that much they will take a 500 or a 150 hour pilot. For sure there are some jobs that a low timer should not be exposed to or just does not have the skills to do safely but most flying on the flats is fair game.

We are doing the same thing to our helicopter industry that was done to our manufacturing industry. Screw Australia and New Zealand, maybe we should just get all our pilots from China, maybe we can even pick them up at (insert name of your fav big box store here)?

 

W.

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I agree there shouldn't be any furnors until we get more Canadian low timers goin but there must be a way to have them more work ready when they complete school

lots of guys out there that don't even come close to ready for the real world fix that and you would have lots of options

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I agree there shouldn't be any furnors until we get more Canadian low timers goin but there must be a way to have them more work ready when they complete school

lots of guys out there that don't even come close to ready for the real world fix that and you would have lots of options

I might be a little bit off topic here, but I think you bring up an excellent point DSL. How many times have we seen pilots show up on fires and not know how to water bucket off the belly, programme their FM or GPS or not even know forestry procedures. It is pretty elementary, I could never figure out why this is not covered in the preliminary training. Most of it can be covered without flying the helicopter, in a classroom. Seismic theory and Kodiak systems, mineral exploration, longlining gear and techniques could be touched on so that when a lowtime pilot gets a kick at the can they are not just trying to wing it. My experience is we just get thrown into it, you either sink or swim. I believe that a whole lot of area could be covered before you ever leave training, then the transition to operational flying would be a whole lot smoother. Perhaps then there would be a lot less screw ups and the minimum hours would be reduced by some of the clients. Thus, less need for hiring foreign pilots.

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I might be a little bit off topic here, but I think you bring up an excellent point DSL. How many times have we seen pilots show up on fires and not know how to water bucket off the belly, programme their FM or GPS or not even know forestry procedures. It is pretty elementary, I could never figure out why this is not covered in the preliminary training. Most of it can be covered without flying the helicopter, in a classroom. Seismic theory and Kodiak systems, mineral exploration, longlining gear and techniques could be touched on so that when a lowtime pilot gets a kick at the can they are not just trying to wing it. My experience is we just get thrown into it, you either sink or swim. I believe that a whole lot of area could be covered before you ever leave training, then the transition to operational flying would be a whole lot smoother. Perhaps then there would be a lot less screw ups and the minimum hours would be reduced by some of the clients. Thus, less need for hiring foreign pilots.

All this to be accomplished within 100 hours..??!?! Canada is low in required hours to meet a standard for a commercial rotary wing licence compared to other countries, and yet we still turn out a better product by comparison.

 

If a pilot shows up and does not know how to us or utilize the above mentioned equipment, who really is at fault here...a flight training school?

 

Gimme a break....

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I might be a little bit off topic here, but I think you bring up an excellent point DSL. How many times have we seen pilots show up on fires and not know how to water bucket off the belly, programme their FM or GPS or not even know forestry procedures. It is pretty elementary, I could never figure out why this is not covered in the preliminary training. Most of it can be covered without flying the helicopter, in a classroom. Seismic theory and Kodiak systems, mineral exploration, longlining gear and techniques could be touched on so that when a lowtime pilot gets a kick at the can they are not just trying to wing it. My experience is we just get thrown into it, you either sink or swim. I believe that a whole lot of area could be covered before you ever leave training, then the transition to operational flying would be a whole lot smoother. Perhaps then there would be a lot less screw ups and the minimum hours would be reduced by some of the clients. Thus, less need for hiring foreign pilots.

If by preliminary training you mean "the training a working pilot gets before getting thrown into something unknown" I'd say, "absolutely, train away". Hey in fact many of our industries "Best Practices" are jointly developed with, and adopted by, our varied customers as guidelines for such training. Hmmm they are a trusting lot aren't they. "Fable or Fact" might be a good opening question for any auditor of training records.

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All this to be accomplished within 100 hours..??!?! Canada is low in required hours to meet a standard for a commercial rotary wing licence compared to other countries, and yet we still turn out a better product by comparison.

If a pilot shows up and does not know how to us or utilize the above mentioned equipment, who really is at fault here...a flight training school?

Gimme a break....

 

All this operational knowledge I learned when coming up in the industry, my first job was working ground 22 years ago, nets , radios and working with the engineers... This knowledge helped huge in the years that followed. This is the traditional way most people i know came up through the industry. It wasn't until Mr. owner of 1-2 million dollar helicopter was convinced you loved his equipment as much as he did that you actually got to fly it.... Maybe times have changed ...

 

As for the foreign worker issue , UNTIL there is a bilateral agreement tha allows ALL Canadians free access AUS, NZ EU markets with the same access for all NOT just under 31 , then the Candian job market should be closed and protect jobs for Canadians just as these other jurisdictions protect their niche job markets for their citizens... Except under extrordinary cases that don't include falsifying advertisements on job skill requirements to meet strict entry requirements.

 

It's either open for all equally or too bad for you.

 

P5

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I think pilots have a lot on their plates when doing their license. Airspace, talking on the radio, weather, traffic patterns and also trying to deal with the various instructor personalities, lol. Just because someone can fly doesn't make them a good TEACHER. There are just too many things to cover in a short period and what are the chances you would be using a drip torch or running bags right out of school. No, i think it's the responsibility of the employer to provide specialty training and MENTORING.
My memories of being new are "don't touch" and "let 'so and so' do that" (someone with more experience) I was in for a bit of a shock when through experience i learned that most pilots in an attempt to protect their livelihood do not mentor, no showing how to program an FM radio etc. and even to the point of withholding information on the handover of a job to sabotage you and make you look incompetent. "Hey we liked that other pilot better, at least he knew where the ops gear was" (half of slings and nets hidden in the scrub beside a little used pad, that was only one of many such experiences).
As P5 said, you do the above mentioned learning when you are new in the hangar. When a machine comes back from a tour with a black tail boom and the ops gear dirty and tangled, you never stop going to "school".

Back to the foreign worker issue, yes i say cut them all off. Doing so has a ripple effect that goes all the way down the line. Pilots will have to be lured back to companies that rely on foreign workers with better pay, rotations and treatment. There would have to be an adjustment in hour minimums too, opening up spaces for pilots just starting out instead of having a 2000 hour pilot flying pipeline or lease to lease.

 

Canada is making it easy for other countries to use us as a stepping stone at the expense of our home grown pilots and ultimately our economy.

 

Cheers,

 

W.

P.S. my mentioning someone not being a good teacher is not a reflection on Helilog56's teaching ability, just a general comment. In my oppinion he is an ok pilot (ha, ha, ha) and has one of the best personalities for teaching that i have ever seen. If you can catch him in the off season you would be very lucky to do your license with him.

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What if we have too many pilots anyways ...... even if we take the foreign pilots out of the equation? Should the old timers give up their jobs so the young fellows can catch a break?

 

I would .... if you paid me.

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NMH did a mountain course for us back in the 90s. Not only Mountain flying but operational training. It got a lot of good solid pilots going.

 

Here is the real issue I will retire for 50 cents less than you Jim. Steve

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