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Some other great quotes from above..."even now there are some companies that still do it". That's true. I work for one and love it. Send in your resume.

" THE CREWS need mins, therefore that should be in the contract, ". That's also true, but it should be in your employment contract. You agreed to work for the deal you are now complaining about.

"You sound like management". Yes, maybe I do too...but not all management sounds like that. do yourself a favour and look for another boss...the present one sounds like a dick, and probably always will be.

Good luck.

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Its really simple,, as Pilots we need to get our heads out of been paid by the flight hour,,,you are away from home for extended periods of time and suppose to be in a "profession" . Your duty day is

Averaged mins aren't the problem. It's flight pay in general, everything about it is garbage.

Godam*^ed f*5ed sh*%Tstorm so* of B* ^&   sitting here watching all my hard work getting averaged out AGAIN because the client is unorganized!   *$S HF^(SDNS!!!   Thanks for listening e

no, actually I have a good boss. That is one reason I am still here. It is not his fault the upper-managment makes these decisions. I am sure he would if he could. I already know the answer if I bring it up. If I want that changed, I need to change companies, and that can be risky too, what one has the others may not.

 

I am just venting and thought I would fire up a thread about it, after all I am sitting in a Shite hole with nothing to do but *****!

Might get flying tomorrow they say. I hope for all of you I do! lol

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I honestly think that the Canadian industry as a hole is in the dark ages when it comes to both pay and what is expected from us or what has become the norm in Canada. I work with a bunch of guys that now have permanent residency but come from the same industry just different parts of the world. They are in complete awe when it come to bush work in Canada and what is expected or the norm and when they see the pay involved they just roll their eyes. Now, most of these guys are very high time qualified IFR multi engine, off shore, actual IMC , testing officer, instructor and military background guys. They keep reminding me that this industry of our is like no other on the planet when is come to recurrent training, exams, PPC, low vis, hover exit, medical etc etc etc and what we need to keep current just to work. What does a physician do to keep current!?!??!!

 

When was the last time your company paid for your medical? ……… never.

 

Anyway, their point is……. we are all grossly underpaid for the pure skill, knowledge and re-current training required to safely execute any mission especially with humans on board in a single engine A/C.

 

…. my 2 cents

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Where I work, on some contracts the customer pays "crew mins" that are separate from a/c mins, but it's not universal. I've done two tours since the fall where I sat at a base with no mins and very little flying. I'm new here, so I'm not getting my panties twisted in knots just yet...

 

The way I see it, if I spend a lot of energy thinking about how little money I'm making today, it'll just make me miserable. I'm in it for the long haul. At the end of the year, I look at how much money I made and divide it by the number of days I was away from my family. That's when I can evaluate how much money I made per day on average and if it was really worth it to spend so much time away from those I love...

 

I agree we are grossly underpaid for the skills we bring to the table and the risks and responsibilities we take. I just can't believe relatively unskilled laborers working the oil patch take home twice what I make...

 

...and what makes me lose my sh!t is when a manager says "but in my day.." or "back when I started out in this business...". I'm sure if you speak to the roughnecks of the early years, they were grossly underpaid as well. Times change. Society evolves. The workplace evolves, everywhere except in the helicopter industry I suppose...

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Where I work, on some contracts the customer pays "crew mins" that are separate from a/c mins, but it's not universal. I've done two tours since the fall where I sat at a base with no mins and very little flying. I'm new here, so I'm not getting my panties twisted in knots just yet...

 

The way I see it, if I spend a lot of energy thinking about how little money I'm making today, it'll just make me miserable. I'm in it for the long haul. At the end of the year, I look at how much money I made and divide it by the number of days I was away from my family. That's when I can evaluate how much money I made per day on average and if it was really worth it to spend so much time away from those I love...

 

I agree we are grossly underpaid for the skills we bring to the table and the risks and responsibilities we take. I just can't believe relatively unskilled laborers working the oil patch take home twice what I make...

 

...and what makes me lose my #### is when a manager says "but in my day.." or "back when I started out in this business...". I'm sure if you speak to the roughnecks of the early years, they were grossly underpaid as well. Times change. Society evolves. The workplace evolves, everywhere except in the helicopter industry I suppose...

Couldn't agree more.

 

I might fly today, so maybe I will start a thread about how much I love my job tonight!

 

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no, actually I have a good boss. That is one reason I am still here. It is not his fault the upper-managment makes these decisions. I am sure he would if he could. I already know the answer if I bring it up. If I want that changed, I need to change companies, and that can be risky too, what one has the others may not.

 

I am just venting and thought I would fire up a thread about it, after all I am sitting in a Shite hole with nothing to do but *****!

Might get flying tomorrow they say. I hope for all of you I do! lol

 

What an interesting turn of events...

 

What a stroke of genius it is to simply get higher rates and pay pilots more....

 

How easy it is to pay pilots a share of revenue (flight pay) that don't exist...

 

How relevant it is to compare a company with long term contracts, that contain guaranteed revenue (so shares are available), to VFR ad hoc charters where we scrabble and scrape for what we get...

 

How backwards Canada is for pioneering so many things that have made helicopters safer and better....

 

Yeah, I'm in management... So please let me know how easy it is to get all those things that make it so easy.... I plan to leave this "so easy job" where we are failing to deliver all these easy things... I can't friggin wait.... So Mr. Landsalot, please show us what you can do... I'm sure you must have all kinds of ideas how "upper management" can be straightened out....

 

HV

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What an interesting turn of events...

 

What a stroke of genius it is to simply get higher rates and pay pilots more....

 

How easy it is to pay pilots a share of revenue (flight pay) that don't exist...

 

How relevant it is to compare a company with long term contracts, that contain guaranteed revenue (so shares are available), to VFR ad hoc charters where we scrabble and scrape for what we get...

 

How backwards Canada is for pioneering so many things that have made helicopters safer and better....

 

Yeah, I'm in management... So please let me know how easy it is to get all those things that make it so easy.... I plan to leave this "so easy job" where we are failing to deliver all these easy things... I can't friggin wait.... So Mr. Landsalot, please show us what you can do... I'm sure you must have all kinds of ideas how "upper management" can be straightened out....

 

HV

I am not speaking directly to my current employer, but to the industry as a whole. This problem exists at a higher level than individual companies. Like I said earlier, my employer brings a lot of good things to the table for me, enough to out weigh the bad and that is why I remain loyal to my employer.

 

It is the majority of companies I think that have adapted to averaging mins, If I had a company I would probably follow suit, as it is good business for the company and how else would you compete?

 

How do the companies that don't average mins do it and stay in business?

 

HV, do you remember when you flew for 4 hour or non averaged mins? .life was good eh?

when you where flying, did you not always want more money? is that why you went into management?

 

HV You are doing a good job in my opinion. But we all should be doing better than we are in this industry. I sure as *** don't have the answer, and if I thought management was all bent out of shape I would have left long ago. I just don't understand why I could go back to operating an excavator and make the same money.

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Here is the norm in Canada--

 

- complaining about 3 hour mins(of any sort) for this time of year.

 

-where is this customer, I will do it for 2.

 

Had a customer call once complaining their existing heli company was too expensive and charging them 1.5 hour mins. Would I be willing to go work for them. "how many hours do you fly?" "1 or 2 every day" So I put in contract for the same mins,,,,,"what is with the mins you want?" jerks,,,,they stayed with their original company.

 

Averaging mins, my gosh a guaranteed amount of income,,,how horrible. The only time have seen this unfair was to a relief pilot who was sent to replace the pilot at the end of tour and weather went bad. Thus he sat with little or no flying. The company recognized this as unfair to the individual and paid him mins.

 

Customers generally have budgets and in the old days you simply got an amount of hours for the contract. Crews for the most part simply got what they flew, or they would take the hours divided by days you worked and thus tada......average hours....for crying in the sink. Clients have for the most part two reasons for the helicopter,,,one to move things, two to standby to move things. If they only need to move things, they usually could care less averaging or not and will simply sign to a number of hours. Clients who need to standby and to move things want averaging mins. If you are lucky enough to not sit and wait for hours whistle and be happy.

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But as pilots it behooves us to get the job done in the most safe and efficient manner. Why drag your butt when weather is ok just to try and struggle with bad weather later on.

 

But averaging is some cases removes some of the pressure, if you have a set amount of work to do. Sometimes the customer will save big time and push to get job done quicker to save expenses, thus if the crew is on average mins they do not feel the need to get sucked into this push.

 

Associated Helicopters used to have the motto, "Safety, Efficiency, and Economy" has stayed with me.

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