2 Hours Averaged ?

[hybrid]

Hope you don't mind helicopterjim, I took the liberty of extracting the definition from dictionary. Armed with this, perhaps you could answer the question now?

 

1. an organization of people with a common purpose and having a formal structure.

2. the act of associating or the state of being associated.

3. connection; relationship.

4. the connection or relation of ideas, feelings, etc.; correlation of elements of perception, reasoning, or the like.

5. an idea, image, feeling, etc., suggested by or connected with something other than itself; an overtone or connotation.

6. a group of plants of one or more species living together under uniform environmental conditions and having a uniform and distinctive aspect.

7. a weak form of chemical bonding, as hydration.

[Helilog56]

I'll wade into this....as I was a big supporter for an association (HEPAC)...no union.

Jim, and others, have their reasons opposed, but there are also benefits to look at.

Reasons why......as so many of us are contractors, benefits are thin. We had looked at dental and medical coverages along with life insurance and loss of licence.

We were working on government funding for training and flight crew upgrading....having said that, I had 3 very large operators very much ready to support us.

Corporate donations and discounts were being sought, with a nice one that was to come from RayBan.

Family support benefits for a surviving family.

Legal support and mediation services for disputes and if legal matters arose.

 

That was just the starting point......the whole platform was based on education and bringing along good old fashioned Canadian talent from that low time status.

But alas...the naysayers and boo birds came out squawking that they (aka "me" syndrome), did not need anyone, other than themselves to represent their views.

Fair enough...then don't join.

The bleating and actual anger continued enough to discourage the core of directors......and it was given up.

 

Perhaps one day this industry will mature enough to foresee, what some of us knew could be a win win for all.

 

Cheers,

Bob Kellie

[Maury]

Thanks Jim

 

I am guessing you know what an anecdote is, but no matter. I did not say anything about a union. No one is looking to tell you how to live your life. And guess what, anyone that has been in the industry for any period of time at all has done everything you have done and maybe some of us have done a little more. And we have all had days when it was a wonder to fly, but does that mean we should not try and make the industry better, if not for yourself, then at least for the others that follow.

I found your one comment near the end (still don't know how to cut and paste!) interesting - "the companies ain't going to give you something for nothing". You are absolutely right about that, but then who was asking for it? Not me. I want the companies to pay and treat me what I am worth flopping around in their multimillion dollar aircraft or sitting in a hotel room for days on end hoping to get a chance to fly and make some money.

[Skidz]

Hope you don't mind helicopterjim, I took the liberty of extracting the definition from dictionary. Armed with this, perhaps you could answer the question now?

 

1. an organization of people with a common purpose and having a formal structure.

2. the act of associating or the state of being associated.

3. connection; relationship.

4. the connection or relation of ideas, feelings, etc.; correlation of elements of perception, reasoning, or the like.

5. an idea, image, feeling, etc., suggested by or connected with something other than itself; an overtone or connotation.

6. a group of plants of one or more species living together under uniform environmental conditions and having a uniform and distinctive aspect.

7. a weak form of chemical bonding, as hydration.

 

I think definition #6 most closely resembles helicopter pilots...

[helicopterjim]

I want the companies to pay and treat me what I am worth flopping around in their multimillion dollar aircraft or sitting in a hotel room for days on end hoping to get a chance to fly and make some money.

 

Well if your not getting paid what you are worth then you have a choice. Put up with it or find someone who will pay you what you are worth.

 

Fred wants us to have a union - but you want an association. I still don't know what it will get you regarding sitting in the bush all day and only flying 1.5. I don't know how it will help you get paid while you sit in a hotel room - hoping for a chance to fly and make some money. If you are doing that for free or for peanuts then your problems are bigger than I thought.

 

It might be nice to have an association to help you get better medical rates or to help you with guidelines to negotiating a contract with an employer or directing you to proper legal or accounting services. I do agree with what Bob is talking about. That is an association that some employers may just see is in their best interest to support. Also, because an association like that can't run for free - it would also require the pilots to compensate for the services they receive. If that is what you are looking for then I totally misunderstood your original question.

 

However I don't see an 'associations' job is to get me a proper wage while I flop around in a multi-million dollar aircraft. The living conditions are what they are ..... if I don't like them - I do something about it. I don't need to ask permission to go stay in a better hotel. I don't need to ask permission to cleanup or fixup a ****** crew house. I just do it ... or put up with it. If not I can always leave. I haven't had to do either for quite some time!

[helicopterjim]

 

I think definition #6 most closely resembles helicopter pilots...

 

Pretty close ..... I'm not sure mushrooms are plants though ...

[helicopterjim]

I re-read Maury's post, I think you misunderstood the question helicopterjim, he was referring to an association....

 

True .... I should have saved that post for Fred.

[49 Merc]

 

Goes both ways buddy ....!!

 

You suggest that the guys who love the job leave so that the guys who want all the comfy,cushy working conditions can stay?

 

No wonder you guys hate it when the guys who suck it up and go to work ...... keep going to work.

I reread my post, I don't see anywhere, where I suggested that "the guys who love the job should leave so that the guys who want all the comfy,cushy working conditions can stay"

And I never mentioned anywhere that "guys hate it when the guys who suck it up and go to work....keep going to work"

If you didn't like my post, say so, but don't put words in my mouth, and make up statements. And the remark to Rotor about "maybe you should leave the industry" was just little taste of his attitude back at him. We may not all agree on everything in this industry, but by saying " you should quit", just because we have different opinions is juvenile. I wanted him to see how demeaning that statement can be.

 

On with the Show

[helicopterjim]

I reread my post, I don't see anywhere, where I suggested that "the guys who love the job should leave so that the guys who want all the comfy,cushy working conditions can stay"

 

 

Well I reread your post and I got out of it that you thought that ROTOR .... someone who loves flying .... should leave the industry ... pretty much your words so sorry if I was supposed to read berween the lines. I'm only good at palin English.

[R0T0R]

I terribly sorry I demeaned you with my statement. I'll make sure to sit there and let people accuse me of ruining the industry. Next time I feel like defending my position I'll PM you and ask for permission.