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alphadog

2 Hours Averaged ?

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Maybe you should leave the industry? Then we wouldn't have such a large group of pilots out there bringing down the average.

 

Goes both ways buddy ....!!

 

You suggest that the guys who love the job leave so that the guys who want all the comfy,cushy working conditions can stay?

 

No wonder you guys hate it when the guys who suck it up and go to work ...... keep going to work.

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Brass pole in a 214 .... that would be my dream job .....!!

From other threads it sounds like your co-joes barf enought, last thing they need is you twirling naked around a pole in the back.

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I'm a bit confused by the argument here. We have one side saying we need to organize and form a union or something. Other totally against it. If you feel so strongly that you need the support of a union apply to the companies/organizations that already do have unions. They're out there. If you're so strongly against them, stay away, you need not apply. This is like debating politics and religion.

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From other threads it sounds like your co-joes barf enought, last thing they need is you twirling naked around a pole in the back.

Something that didn't turn my stomach would have been welcome though I likely would have spen very little time in the right seat!!!

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I'm a bit confused by the argument here. We have one side saying we need to organize and form a union or something. Other totally against it. If you feel so strongly that you need the support of a union apply to the companies/organizations that already do have unions. They're out there. If you're so strongly against them, stay away, you need not apply. This is like debating politics and religion.

 

I don't think it's so cut & dried Skidmark.

 

I agree there are those out there with a sense of entitlement or whatever you want to call it who would like to be coddled and be treated like royalty, but then on the other end of the spectrum, you have some of the "old timers" who seem to have the attitude "I was treated like sh!t by this industry and I think it's ok that those in it now and in the future also be treated like sh!t". There's nothing wimpy or whiny for people wanting to see conditions improve for all pilots accross the board. It's called progress. Some people seem to be against it out of spite more than anything else...

 

Look at other trades we work alongside every day: Loggers, firefighters, drillers, geos, even the friggin' tree planters. Their working conditions have evolved over time to improve in terms of working conditions and salary. Why ? Simply because they have people looking out for their interests, whether it be unions or some other form of representation that advocates on their behalf. I can't think of a single trade or profession out there where working conditions and salaries haven't changed in 25 years. Can you ?

 

As has been said previously, who's gonna have your back if you're involved in an accident ? Not your employer. Not his insurer. Not TC. We as PICs carry a huge load of responsibility with relatively low compensation. Yes, we all love to fly, but how many guys have been whiped out by legal fees following an accident ? How much will you love to fly if your wife and kids no longer have a roof over their heads because everyone and his dog has sued you (or your estate) ?

 

There's a really good example of this in my neck of the woods where a pilot crashed into a tower and killed himself. He made a judgement error and chose to fly in low-visibility. The company that owned the tower sued his estate and whiped out his family. They took his house, his savings, everything. His employer washed his hands (after pressuring him to fly in bad weather). The insurance company refused to pay because the aircraft was flown below VFR mins and was not certified for IFR (thereby voiding the CofA, and insurance being dependant of a valid CofA...)

 

Don't get me wrong. I don't feel I'm being mistreated or abused by my employer. On the contrary. The problem is this industry is extremely competitive and even the very best employers cannot improve their employee's conditions as much as they'd like to. There's always a chisel charter who'll be ready to undercut those who try to be progressive...

 

We are our own worst enemies here. Helicopter pilots tend to be by nature type A personalities and very independant thinkers. We all think we have the best answers and solutions to problems. Many of us have egos to match. Add to this a very fragmented and widely dispersed workforce and you have a very difficult group of people to get to agree on anything...

 

I think the aim of this discussion should be about how do we improve our collective lot. How can we help this industry progress in terms of how pilots are treated and compensated ? It shouldn't be about current and future generations being subjected to working conditions that were "acceptable" in the '80s...

 

That's my 2 bits. Fire away !!!

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I'm a bit confused by the argument here. We have one side saying we need to organize and form a union or something. Other totally against it. If you feel so strongly that you need the support of a union apply to the companies/organizations that already do have unions. They're out there. If you're so strongly against them, stay away, you need not apply. This is like debating politics and religion.

Name one VFR company in Canada that is unionized? I can't think of one.

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It is funny how the second organizing is mentioned, immediately the word union is spouted out. I may have mentioned the word union once (and please don't go through it looking to see if I did use that dreaded word more and then rant about it) in my post but it was on the same line as association and professional college.

I never said anything about going on strike or anything remotely like it, I did say that I would like to see some kind of an association so that pilot's concerns, whatever they may be - how about safety - can be addressed as a group that is front row and center and not "Oh, this is what all our pilots say" as the company management team is talking to HAC.

I ask you, do you have a problem with the Canadian Medical Association? Do you say, "oh, those commie doctors are acting up again" or "I am sure those **** doctors are itching to go on strike" every time the CMA is mentioned? Of course not, or at least I would certainly hope not. Or do you say, "finally, I am no longer in pain because the CMA stood up to the government and pointed out that the generic drugs that some bureaucrat said would be fine and that they would pay for, were not as effective, in this particular case, as the original".

How about the Professional Engineers of Canada or whatever (I am really guessing on that one)? Do you say "those pinkos, all they want to do is work less and make more" or do you say, "gee, I am sure glad his association stuck up for him, when that engineer accused, and was found to be correct, that company of shoddy workmanship on that bridge over that mile deep canyon I was going to take my family across"? I obviously made those up. Use your own examples for either of the above.

So I ask the naysayers, what is wrong with the helicopter pilots of Canada joining an association like the ones mentioned above? No one is going on strike.

I am just looking for a simple answer here and I don't think we need to hear any details of someone barfing.

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Oh. And to answer the original question of this thread as to whether 2 hour averaged mins was the norm: When I flew for Hydro-Quebec not so many years ago, we often had contracts that were for stuff like 1.3 hours per day averaged mins. The company I flew for at the time guaranteed us absolute mins of 2 hours/day averaged regardless of a/c mins, which wasn't much. Looks like the west is getting as "competitive" as the east has been for the past ten years or so... Not much work to go around, way too many a/c available to share what little there is... How many more operators are going to go belly up this year if the fire season sucks as bad as last year ?

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Name one VFR company in Canada that is unionized? I can't think of one.

Hydro in Ontario

TC/CCG although IFR is required to be hired but not used

ooops, thats 2. Both also have pensions something else you don't find too often either.

I know they're not "companies" in a sense but both have been looking for pilots recently.

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Hydro in Ontario

TC/CCG although IFR is required to be hired but not used

ooops, thats 2. Both also have pensions something else you don't find too often either.

I know they're not "companies" in a sense but both have been looking for pilots recently.

I

 

They are private and government operators and TC/CCG require an IFR. Not exactly viable options for the average pilot.

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