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MEOB

Full On Autos

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Are there many companies out there that still do them? The bunch Ive been with now for the last 3 seasons does not do them and it drives me nuts. Its almost a waste of jet A to even go up to do them. After spending the previous 10 years working for a outfit that did everything to the ground with all types and being a training pilot for them as well for a number of years you got really comfortable with autos and it really boosts your confidence. Now this power recovery crap is horrible and not even close to a full on its missing one of the most important parts of the whole procedure.

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I agree with you that full-on autos are of much greater value in training than power recoveries. Where I work we do them as long as certain minimum criteria are present (wind, vis, etc.). I do however understand why some companies don't like doing them, or put such severe restrictions on doing them that they rarely get done. More accidents happen in training than in operations, and in these lean times, one rolled-up aircraft in training can annihilate an entire year's profits...

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Full on autos are awesome!!!! I hadn't really done them until my last company where we did tonnes. Now I find doing a power recovery is like reading a really good book where someone ripped out the ending. :(

 

If companies aren't comfortable with that level of training, or risk to the machine, contracting out the training is a great option. Just because a company has competent, professional pilots on-staff doesn't mean they are the best at training. Sometimes it's better to pay a bit more and farm out the training to get a better product.

Cheers,

tin lizzie

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I don't think it's so much a question of who does the training. There are inherent risks involved in flight training, and even the very best schools have their share of incidents an/or accidents, most of which we never hear about for obvious reasons..

 

In today's industry, where a risk assessment is performed before someone picks their nose (barely kidding here), it's normal for a company to look long and hard at their training programs and see how they can maintain a level of proficiency while minimizing risk. Not many companies can afford to farm out their training...

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Interesting to see though, that a country like the US where they mostly DON'T teach full ons, they STILL manage to save the odd aircraft.

 

In any case, I think a lot of it has to do with the insurance cost though. Like mentioned earlier, one piece of bent steel/aluminum gets very expensive. Like hydraulics off in Astars, and auto/manual changeovers in 212's.

 

In the sim it is all full-ons, even to the water if necessary.

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More accidents happen during training for sure but Iam sure its the trade off for less in operations. I think Id rather risk a bent cross tube and know when it comes down to it the pilot will have no issues landing with out incident in a failure or what not within reason of course. Accidents happen yes but I wonder if there is any correlation with the amount of accidents that happen with a company that has a bunch of restrictions in place as apposed to the ones that do them all the time (at the training pilots discretion) with no restrictions. The last out fit there were no accidents involving full ons (yes there were incidents at times but not to do with autos) but everyone started out going to the ground from day one and were proficient at doing so as well to know when to do a overshoot and try again and recognizing when things were not right. We never had any restrictions except for a min altitude to start from. Then theres all this safety / risk assessment stuff that everyone is preaching, (don't get me wrong I'm all about safety and common sense) I'm wondering if this is going to start to hinder and interfere with the ability to do proper realistic training. I'm after noticing a big difference in the last few years (especially as the older old school guys retire) and we all know "safety" is after going to high extremes the past few years and is showing no signs of levelling out we won't be able to work any more soon because its going to be safer to just stay home lol . Just thinking out loud been a long day of waiting in the hotel on horizontal standby and the flys are too bad to go out side.

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I know some insurance "packages" or whatever you call them write rules about full-on autos right into the contract for the hull. This prevents the company from doing them even if they wanted to...

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I know some insurance "packages" or whatever you call them write rules about full-on autos right into the contract for the hull. This prevents the company from doing them even if they wanted to...

Insurance companies don't write anything in without the company approving it. Companies do this to get cheaper rates and hide behind my insurance won't let me do it. Just like all those big companies that insist their insurance company won't let them fly low timers. Yet the start up and MA and PA companies can fly low timers and do full on auto's.

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