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Golden_pilot

Resurgence Of Entry Level Flying Jobs

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I'm more concerned about low time pilots flying low level in an environment with some serious hazards. These wind generators can really move a jetranger let alone that little bathroom fan. If it happens I hope that they are smart enought to do a fly the wire course or get some low level training from someone like H56.

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Now think about if dude gets a real job? He has 500 hours, but needs 1000 TT to go fly lease to lease in the oilfield. His Chief Pilot thinks he's competent but he can't send him on the job. BUT all of a sudden buddy pulls out 500 signed hours flying one of these lawnmowers. It may be experimental, it may be private. But it's still a helicopter. Neither he or his Chief Pilot, care about his resume now.

 

Well said. In the world of Contrail minimums, hours in the logbook are *everything*. I sure wish I could pull out those extra hours to get over the thousand-hour hump - and I dare say my ops manager and chief pilot sometimes wish I could too. I've lost count of the times that I hear "you should be out there flying these jobs!"

 

We can all agree that working for free sets the wrong precedent. However, in a world where it's difficult to earn that first job and no easier to make it to 1000 hours, the prospect of a flying opportunity - ANY opportunity - will be difficult for a keen low timer to resist.

 

On a more constructive note - what alternatives can we come up with to help worthy and trusted lowtimers build time?

 

- Darren

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That being said, the "opportunity" discussed in this topic presents many risks. Both physical (uncertified a/c flying for hours on end in the curve) and legal (as in risk of license suspension, fines and industry ostracization ) if TC puts the hammer down on this operation. Remember, it's always the PIC's fault...

 

Yeah I wasn't referencing this specific job, If it came down to it I'd be out drying cherries with a hair dryer rather than strapping into a rig like that haha. To explain a little bit better I just meant that whole sentiment in aviation in general about the race to the bottom, there's not much of it here but on avcanada it's huge with the plank drivers. I have had pilots at companies I've worked for tell me I shouldn't be there, doing that particular job for that pay and for the amount of time the company wanted because of that mindset though.

I also find it Humorous that when someone asks if they should do their license and you tell them No! They do it and then are bitter when they can't get work. Not saying this is you Justin but If you work for free and someone finds out?!? I myself would urge management not to hire you. What else are you willing to do to get ahead of me?

 

That's definitely not me, I wish I was in a position to be able to work for free, know guys that have though and nothing really came of it. I'm not bitter about having done my licence but I do have some regrets, I should have waited until I was more stable financially instead of jumping into it 2 years out of highschool. But it was a goal I had set and I don't regret that I followed through with it and proved to myself that I could do it and I think a lot of guys are the same way. Just unfortunate that there isn't as much work as the flight school sales pitch led a bunch of us to believe.

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Considering 1 in 10 pilots (probably a low estimate) get a job in this industry, I'm sure many have worked for free. I don't know if he's encouraging it, but it's a fact. Many pilots have travelled state side and paid for copilot time while flying on news helicopters. I remember a low time guy I used to work with at canadian who went to LA.

After spending 50,000.00 on a helicopter licence and knocking on every door in Canada (over 2 seasons) I would have shovelled #### uphill for free if I thought I was getting closer to a job in the pilot seat.

You're probably not far off with the 1 in 10 estimate. TC used to post statistics on this. I searched but can't find anything recent. As I recall they used to post how many licences are issued and how many are still current with PPCs and such. Back before 2008 I think it was in the neighbourhood 20%. Oh well they probably laid off the person at TC who did this when our current government axed everything or they moved over to cabin safety;) Flight schools didn't advertise those numbers then and they certainly don't now a days. Not that wide eyed eager dreamers with good credit would listen to facts anyhow.

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but I do have some regrets, I should have waited until I was more stable financially instead of jumping into it 2 years out of highschool. But it was a goal I had set and I don't regret that I followed through with it and proved to myself that I could do it and I think a lot of guys are the same way. Just unfortunate that there isn't as much work as the flight school sales pitch led a bunch of us to believe.

Hey trust me you did good by doing this as soon as you could rather than later. You still have more of your younger years during which to figure out what you want to do with your life. I got my licence 4 years after getting out of university. I chased the dream for a few years but now it's a distant memory (as in I never got anywhere with it). The fact that I hadn't been working in my field of study for years set me back as it was very difficult getting back in.

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You're probably not far off with the 1 in 10 estimate. TC used to post statistics on this. I searched but can't find anything recent. Flight schools didn't advertise those numbers then and they certainly don't now a days. Not that wide eyed eager dreamers with good credit would listen to facts anyhow.

It would be nice to see stats to support the numbers used here.....I have personally seen over the last couple of years, the opposite.

In fact, it was closer to 8 out of 10, that I witnessed get hired and placed in the industry.......and no, I work for Aircrane, and only instruct at one of the larger flight schools to help out when needed...so no sales pitch here.

 

I have, as well as others believe that anyone, literally anyone can buy a licence into this industry....doesn't mean they belong or fit into how it works....and they are the ones that b!tch, whine, and badmouth the most when they fail.

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It would be nice to see stats to support the numbers used here.....I have personally seen over the last couple of years, the opposite.

In fact, it was closer to 8 out of 10, that I witnessed get hired and placed in the industry.......and no, I work for Aircrane, and only instruct at one of the larger flight schools to help out when needed...so no sales pitch here.

 

Just wondering if you could clarify on what you mean by hired and place in the industry?

I have seen lots of new low time pilots get hired in the last few years, but they are for non flying labour jobs. If they are placed do you mean they are actually flying building PIC hours and making revenue money? I just find it hard to believe that 80% of the newly trained pilots are flying, from what I have seen the last 5 years or so.

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Sorry.....I can't say what exactly those hired are doing, some may or may not have secured flying jobs?

Believe what you want....it's what I witnessed while I was there instructing....and phone calls came in steady from operators looking for good candidates...which equates to prospects that show initiative, determination, common sense, and a willingness to learn.

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Sorry Bob, but your figures are skewed somewhat. I know companies will hire lots of low-time pilots and put them on ground crew. Those who make the cut might be flying three or four years down the road. I think you need to look at who's still in the industry after five years. I know that's hard to do in the absence of TC stats, but you can do simple math:

 

Back in 2008 when the last stats were released by TC, there are approximately 2000 commercial helicopter pilots with a TC license that kept their medicals up to date each year. This included all of the low-timers and others who don't fly for whatever reasons. That same year, approximately 250 new licenses were issued accross Canada.

 

So in every eight years, the puppy mills generate enough new pilots to completely turn over the industry... Definitely not sustainable IMHO...

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