Prang In New Brunswick

[skullcap]

Freewheel, you are surmising that they did not have the proper size ring on hook, just as I am surmising the lanyard was pulled to hingepoint of loadbeam where it would not have mattered what size ring was on hook. My opinion on this without firsthand knowledge is not an improper lanyard. But the ropes breaking? Most use at least a 5-1 ratio for ratings of sling gear, so it brings me to think the ropes were not rated. Sounds very close to have gotten in to collective bounce.

[Freewheel]

Freewheel, you are surmising that they did not have the proper size ring on hook, just as I am surmising the lanyard was pulled to hingepoint of loadbeam where it would not have mattered what size ring was on hook. My opinion on this without firsthand knowledge is not an improper lanyard. But the ropes breaking? Most use at least a 5-1 ratio for ratings of sling gear, so it brings me to think the ropes were not rated. Sounds very close to have gotten in to collective bounce.

You can surmise all you want. I am not surmising anything about this incident. I have absloutely no idea what happened. I would require way more information than is in the CADORS to conduct an investigation into this accident. I would never make assumptions like that.

 

Since you were discussing rigging on 206's in general I figured this might be useful information to share. You never know, This may be information that others are not aware of...it may even prevent an accident of this nature in the future. My intent was to post the SIL but realized I was not able too.

 

Here's a question though: why wouldn't the supplement be ammended when Breeze Eastern created the Service Information Letter? Wouldn't this be relvant infromation to those in the field? I don't know about you but my book bag doesn't have the room to carry every "Service Information Letter" from every manufacturer. Sikorsky obviously felt it was worthy of contacting operators about. I wonder if they ever amended flight manauals and/or supplements.

[DGP]

From what I was told and this is what I can recall, the tower base was 2 foot square and the end of the tower drops into a 5 foot hole.This is all on a very small piece of land that is under water at high tide.So you have the door off,looking down at your only reference point which is not very big,you have water mostly all around.Two solid clunks were felt and the pilot felt that the load had settled to the bottom.at this time he lowered the tension on the tower and thats when things went bad real fast.The tower went to the left and and it tipped the aircraft 30 degrees to the right.Reference to the point on the ground is lost,you are looking at water,tower is somewhere off to the left,aircraft continuing to bank steeply to the right.He tried to release load but we know why it didn't come off as said.The lanyard was pulling hard to the left with the hook wide open.It was unable to release unless press could be reduced by flying under the load.I will say that due to the tower base being bent this would have been impossible.It would have rotated continually away from the aircraft.All of this happened in a heartbeat.Ground personnel said aircraft was banked at least 70 degrees before the rope straps broke.These things are rated for straight line pulls.Who knows what they are when off level.Did not hear were they broke but they did not slingshot up thank god.Pilot is doing fine if not feeling a little foolish.First bad thing to happen in 38 years off heli flying.

[skullcap]

Sounds like a scary thing for sure. If the ropes were of proper synthetic material such as amsteel there would be no elasticity into rotors. If they were steel it is a miracle they did not come up(maybe they did and just missed stuff).

 

There are many incident reports and accidents to research. I read one where the pilot was reeled in by sockline puller and could not release hook as the hook was pulled backward and the release knob was held immobile as was pulled into belly of aircraft. Interestingly the investigators(who knew their stuff) made very important note that the pilot had NOT put on a few wraps of tape around the longline plug as is customary and thus the plug came apart thus the longline hook was not able to be released. Pilot ended up upside down over hotline and then the aircraft fell to ground and pilot was killed.

 

Freewheel, it is beyond me why anyone this day and age would have the improper size rings on a hook as this has been a very big point of explanation for decades. If someone does not know by now that there are issues with diameter of ring related to EACH and EVERY hook in manufacture they truly are living in a cave but kudos to you for trying to enlighten them. Did you know that the big old hook on swing hook for astar when a load is swung forward can have the keeper lifted by swing frame and the load will go forward and off, regardless of ring size. But many have had zero issues with these hooks and are happy with them.

[twinstar_ca]

i'm guessing this is the kind of productive discussion that skidz envisioned when he started this CADORS thread. Thanks you Freewheel, DGP, and Skully for posting this great information. What an education for those just entering the world of long line...

[R0T0R]

Seconded!! This is what this forum should be for.

[Freewheel]

 

Freewheel, it is beyond me why anyone this day and age would have the improper size rings on a hook as this has been a very big point of explanation for decades. If someone does not know by now that there are issues with diameter of ring related to EACH and EVERY hook in manufacture they truly are living in a cave but kudos to you for trying to enlighten them.

 

While it may be that the ring size discussion is basic ground training for most and has been discussed for years, I'm not sure the same could be said about ring shape. I'm also not sure if it's common knowledge that the use of shackles or Clevis' as the primary ring on these hooks is against the manufacturers recommended practices. IMHO This is understandable since the flight manual supplement makes no mention of either of these facts. SIL04 also contains other rigging information which is not discussed in the flight manual.

[Freewheel]

I think part of the issue some operators have is logistics of ensuring that sling gear is not assigned from one aircraft to the next with the wrong size rings. a couple of years ago, I spent some time comparing our mixed fleet of 13 helicopters trying to find hardware that fell within the limits from one aircraft to the next so it could be used interchangeably. We operate jetrangers, longrangers, Astars and a 205.

 

Most of our A-stars have keeperless hooks with no specific ring size limits, so it turned out all the longranger and AS350 long lines could be set up the same and used interchangeably (using the circular ring in the link above). The Jet ranger and 205 lines required a different setup. From what I recall, the AS350 D has a breeze eastern hook like the longrangers, but oddly enough had differing ring size limits in the flight manual supplement (compared to the 206L); how's that for confusing? I'll double check my spreadsheet tomorrow, but my point is that it is not that hard to end up with the wrong ring if you're not on the ball all the time...that was one of the reasons we were trying to standardize to the best of our ability.

[skullcap]

Interesting stuff for sure Freewheel. So much of what I read on hooks can be explained by the ability(or lack of) to move or pivot and the direction the hook is orientated. The same hook on your Longranger is orientated laterally while forward on 350 sling and aft on 500D, go figure. Pilots should always know and understand the orientation of hook and the balance book of each. If you catch your bucket on a snag in water while pulling forward and the hook is orientated forward it is of utmost importance to comprehend the actions to release it. It will not come off while maintaining forward pull, and the use of aft cyclic will put the tailrotor into the water, you are in essence trapped if an aggressive motion is taken, thus any action you make needs to be carefully processed and acted upon. This comes into play when deciding whether to use a longline vs shortline to bucket and to bucket into current vs with current. Suddenly there are more questions which need to be addressed to make these decisions. We were sometimes taught to bucket with the current on shortline but if your bucket is snagged easing off pressure of line will not help the situation, while bucketing into the current and becoming snagged the pressure on line can be eased off and the bucket becomes less entrapped automatically,,,,but then there is the wind and sun and approach and departure to consider. Oh well.

[Freewheel]

Lol Ring Dimensions interesting? Not so much:) unfortunately it's about as interesting as it gets from my office chair...

DGP sounds like your buddy got a good scare. Although his pride might be a little bruised, we're all thankful he made it back to earth in one piece. Slinging over water has to be one of the most challenging missions. maintaining a position when the world around you is moving...well...enough said.

I remember the first time they asked me to sling the core to the dock...it was a humbling experience. At the time I thought I had the world by the groin...afterall I could move a drill. I realized that day that there would always something around the corner to challenge my abilities.