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Cole, I can't believe you swallowed that load of codswallop!!!

 

We've already been through this on another thread. It's just another variation on the fly for free / slave labour scam. You've got a poor ******* who has paid $40,000 for his/her license and then they are expected to prostitute themselves to get experience and then when they finally start getting paid they have to work for below standard wages to pay back the honour of being abused in the first place.

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I know it looks bad but the pilot that stayed was flying in his spare time working as a ramp rat, then when he reached his 1000 they let him fly, he didnt have to pay for the flying as long as he stayed with the company for x-number of years(2 i think dont quote me) its pretty much the same deal as getting your liscence throug the military (work it off-ish) but he still was making decent money enough to support himself It all worked out as far as I know :)

 

It is better than it looks, Cole

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and even though canada hasn't gone to war in the longest time, there is always the chance that we might, some I'm sure don't want to put their lives on the line in that way.

 

That's an interesting view. . I have lived both sides of that eqation, did the Mil gig, got out, did a few years in the 'industry' and decided to go back to the CF. :up:

 

I got tired of putting my "life on the line" for the almighty dollar (the company's dollar - 'cuase the pay was no screming **** that's for sure) :down: by flying machines with dubious maint :stupid: just to keep employment.

 

For my peace of mind, I feel a lot safer in the mob, even if there is an increased risk deployment and a little bit of shooting, mines, jihadists, snakes etc. If I have to pay the ultimate price, at least it will be for something more noble than the Director of Operation's bonus. :shock:

 

Risk, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. I know Mrs. FA and the small FAs are much happier now that I am back in the CF.

 

That doesn't even begin to touch the stigma associated with being an ex-mil pilot in the RW industry. There are times it borders on racism. I sure got tired of hearing how I didn't have enough "Bush Time" or enough single-engine time in the North etc. Blah!...

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I got tired of putting my "life on the line" for the almighty dollar (the company's dollar - 'cuase the pay was no screming **** that's for sure) [thumbdown.gif]  by flying machines with dubious maint [poster_stupid.gif]  just to keep employment.

If you're trying to say that the maintenance in the civil sector isn't as good as in the military then you were working for the wrong operator my friend!!!!!!

 

Don't forget that the civilian maintenance crews are doing what the military can't seem to be doing which is keep 40 yrs old S61's in tip top shape while they're haulin logs off mountains all year long. That's no small feat considering they have to worry about making a profit at the end of the year!

 

Also, if you have decent hours and you weren't making a good living in the civy world, again you were working for the wrong operator!!!!

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its pretty much the same deal as getting your liscence throug the military (work it off-ish)

 

Cole,

 

Take my experienced word for it. This is absolutely nothing like becoming a pilot in the Canadian Armed Forces! I'm sure you have your own impressions of life as a military pilot, but it is not a place where one can just show up and fly for a couple of years until they get enough time to move on to a nice and comfy commercial job. It is truely a lifestyle choice. If you are into it purely for the flying hours, you won't get past the entry interviews let alone into a cockpit (you are an officer first and foremost and at a distant second, a pilot). As painfully slow and achaic as the recruiting process is, it does an excellent job of weeding out those that are applying for the purpose of building up a log book full of hours.

 

Ironically, being an operational military pilot (I'm talking rotary here) is also an excellent way of not building up a log book full of hours... (approx 150-250 hours per year on average for an operational pilot.)

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HeliDude, it sounds like FA worked for "you know who", seeing as he has the IFR experrience, etc, etc, all his claims add up to that operator anyway :D

 

FA, I know what you're saying about the treatment of ex-military in the civie sector. Sad but true. We have a few ex-mil's working for us, and I hope that we treat them better than the average.

 

All I can say is ... just try and get along and fit in. .."When in ROME....."

 

The wearing of military flight suits and ex military gear only makes you stand out more, the hover taxi flights along taxiways only makes you look different.

 

Look at it another way...If I showed up in the Military, and wore Jeans and Hiking boots, and flew like a Heli-Skier, you'd all pick on me too ! :D

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Cole ------ Two words of advice for the future and by ALL means, do not believe one word of what I am about to say here either........get legal advice to find out if I'm full of crap....then you'll do us both a favour:

 

(1) DO NOT SIGN any legal document anywhere without having a lawyer read the agreement FIRST..... that applies even if you have legal training.......if you do and still don't get a lawyers advice, then you have a fool for a client. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and ASSUME that you have not crossed the line into stupidity in that regard. If you have made that mistake though, then please take note of the following....

 

(2) IF you have signed a legal document staring that you will stay with an employer for X amount of years until you have repaid said employer for some supposed training he gave you, then feel free to "walk", if and whenever the urge strikes you. That agreement is not worth more than the next section of toilet paper you use in the bathroom. If this agreement was drawn-up by the company lawyers or those representing them, then send a letter to that effect to your provincial Bar Association and they will institute an investigation to have the lawyers show cause why they should not be disbarred. These agreements were declared invalid in 1968 by the Supreme Court of Canada. So if ANY company ANYWHERE gives you training in ANYTHING and before, during or after that training they state that you owe them ANYTHING in return, then have them talk with your legal representative and the subject will die a natural death right there.

 

I cannot believe that in this day and age with the higher education that many in the avaition community now have, that this unmitigated crap would still be going on. It's rampant in F/W and at much higher levels of that industry. Guys are indenturing themselves for amounts up to $100,000 for a check-out on some type of airliner and agreeing to work for unbelieveably low wages until it is paid off......and they don't have to because it's worth "0". Doesn't anybody talk to lawyers anymore....or that considered "old-fashioned" also these days?

 

 

On the subject of getting training in the military and what you have to do to repay that debt, perhaps someone would like to direct their comments in that regard towards me because I have a third different point of view on that subject. The subject discussed might also be termed "Be Careful What You Wish For Because You Might Just Get It".

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Organization: Canadian Forces

Website: www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca

Job Opening: Pilot

Job Title: MILITARY PILOT

Contact Name: Steve Robertson

Contact Email: robertson.sm2@forces.gc.ca

Contact Phone: 204-983-3680-227

Job Description: CANADIAN FORCES PILOT TRAINEES WANTED...

 

Please pass the word. I am a helicopter pilot and currently a pilot recruiter for the Canadian Forces. The Canadian Forces needs about 150 pilot trainees. To be eligible you need to be a Canadian, have 20/20 uncorrected vision and a university degree. NO FLT EXP NEEDED.

 

Starting salary during training is about $40,000 and upon completing the wings course and promoted to Captain (3-4 yrs), the salary should be about $60,000 with annual increases upto $95,000.

 

If you would like further information, you can call me directly or e-mail me at: robertson.sm2@forces.gc.ca or call 204-983-3680 X 227

 

Thanks

Steve Robertson, Capt

"Spanky"

 

Posted by Rotorwash Admin

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That's interesting Cap. Well worth checking to see of you're correct. When I was in Alberta talking to one operator they said they have a similar contract for their low time pilots. I guiess before they get pilots on the flight line they put about 150 additional hours of operational training before letting them loose. Considering this investment, they make these pilots sign a 4-year "loyalty" contract stating that this pilot won't leave the company within that time frame.

Not sure if this falls into the same area as time contracts to repay employers, as this is more about the company keeping you long enough to be worth the expenses of extra training.

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