Dual Controls And Passengers

[Icewind]

Who has an opinion on the practice of leaving dual controls in the machine and putting passengers in that seat?

 

I've heard various opinions from "It's not legal unless the person has a pilot's license or is a student with an instructor." to "No problem!".

[HeliRico]

On a lighter side, this is a very nice way to put your customer in your pocket ... Will always want to fly with you in the futur. Lol.

 

I ear your concern tho!

[HeliRico]

On a lighter side, this is a very nice way to put your customer in your pocket ... Will always want to fly with you in the futur. Lol.

 

I ear your concern tho!

[shakey]

On a lighter side, this is a very nice way to put your customer in your pocket ... Will always want to fly with you in the futur. Lol.

 

I ear your concern tho!

I feel better knowing you're sharing the same airspace as me. And by that I mean you are robbing good people of oxygen.

[helicopterjim]

Person assigned onboard duties ..... with appriate training.

 

If that is in your ops manual.

[350B3]

Pretty straight forward, its in the CAR's and in your OPS manual. If its not, you can't do it. Supposed to be covered in annual rec. training.

 

( Years ago what HeliRico said was soooo true! ) now all it takes is word of mouth or someone with a camera to ruin your day.

[Freewheel]

Pretty straight forward, its in the CAR's and in your OPS manual. If its not, you can't do it. Supposed to be covered in annual rec. training.( Years ago what HeliRico said was soooo true! ) now all it takes is word of mouth or someone with a camera to ruin your day.

Why not quote the CARs you are referring to? Or at least provide a reference...which CARs?

[hired-gun12]

Although there is nothing I have ever found which specifically mentions dual controls (usually in Bell mediums to facilitate longline bucketing), we have always used Operations Specification 040 - Carriage of Persons, in conjunction with the passenger briefing which is defined in 722.23. Practical training to be carried out on the ground statically before flight, similar to requirement for 044.

722.16;Carriage of Persons

The standards for authorization to carry persons other than flight crew members and persons essential during flight are:

• the person is a flight crew member trainee, is a person undergoing training for essential duties during flight or is an air operator employee aircraft maintenance technician;
• the person is a fire fighter or fire control officer being carried within a forest fire area;
• the person is being carried to an aerial work site, performs an essential function in connection with the aerial work operation and is necessary to accomplish the aerial work operation;
• during helicopter external load operations, persons not essential during flight are carried only in conjunction with a Class D load which complies with subsection 702.21(1) of the Canadian Aviation Regulations, except for crew members undergoing training, or fire fighters carried only in conjunction with a Class B load consisting of equipment necessary to fight fires within a forest fire area;
  (amended 1998/09/01)
• aircraft equipment requirements comply with Subpart 605 of the Canadian Aviation Regulations, Division II - Aircraft Equipment Requirements for aircraft seats, restraint system requirements and shoulder harness requirements, as applicable; and
• persons are safety briefed in accordance with section 722.23 of the Aerial Work Standard.

NOTE:
(amended 1998/09/01; no previous version)
Parachutists and jumpmasters are considered to be essential during flight and do not require an Operations Specification under subparagraph 702.08 (g) (iv) of the Canadian Aviation Regulations.

[Cambox]

You'll not find anything in CAR's prohibiting passengers from occupying a seat with dual controls installed.  Almost all fixed wing aircraft from a Cessna 150 on up come with duals "permanently" installed.

 

You'll need a company policy (preferrably written) or better yet have it stated in your COM, that passengers are not allowed to occupy a seat that have access to flight controls.

 

 

Icewind, on 06 May 2016 - 5:33 PM, said:

 

Who has an opinion on the practice of leaving dual controls in the machine and putting passengers in that seat?

 

I've heard various opinions from "It's not legal unless the person has a pilot's license or is a student with an instructor." to "No problem!".

 

[18speed]

So really if there is noting in the cars on dual controls and passengers in a 703 operation what is the problem??

 

The only agencys that want the duals removed fron Bell 204/205/212/412 aircraft are certain provincal fire programs.