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Tasman


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The following questions must be asked. Was an accurate weight and balance calculated? Were the OGE and IGE charts consulted? If there was doubt as to the feasibility of the pickup, how did the pilot feel about that? Was this a case of ‘Let’s give it a try and see what happens? Is there any chance that mechanical malfunction was involved?

 

In spite of the fact that the pilot is solely responsible for the fate of his ship, some consideration must be given to the accepted practice which imbues the helicopter culture that encourages pilots to at least make an attempt to complete a mission even though his experience tells him that there is no way the effort will succeed.

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The following questions must be asked.  Was an accurate weight and balance calculated?  Were the OGE and IGE charts consulted?  If there was doubt as to the feasibility of the pickup, how did the pilot feel about that? Was this a case of ‘Let’s give it a try and see what happens?  Is there any chance that mechanical malfunction was involved?

 

In spite of the fact that the pilot is solely responsible for the fate of his ship, some consideration must be given to the accepted practice which imbues the helicopter culture that encourages pilots to at least make an attempt to complete a mission even though his experience tells him that there is no way the effort will succeed.

 

 

I've know and worked along side the pilot of that ship for years now. Although I've not talked to him about this specific accident, I'll vouch that all weight and balance and WAT charts were consulted. This guy is not new to this kind of flying, as well he has worked with the particular ski company for many years, as well as the specific guide that was on board during the crash. I'll also say this about the guide, who I also know well. Not one to push or apply pressure, a pleasure to work with.

This type of accident is a tough one. I've flown out of that specific pick up many times and the problem is not specific to it alone.

Guides will ski to the end of the hill and if it can be avoided no further. Unfortunately this is the worst place to get picked up, for several reasons. Usually the wind will flow down the glacier, so taking off into wind will have you climbing into rising terrain and increasing down flowing air. To make things worse there will be lots of level ground behind you, not dropping away as fast as you are, so as you run out of room in front and turn downwind, you're left with no airspeed in down flowing air and a bunch of ground in your window.

Solution???

Park as far from the steep terrain as you think that you can make the clients slug up to you. This way you'll have more airspeed as you reach the rising terrain, more altitude and more time. Is it just this easy.....NO, but it's a start.

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4961 - taking the last scenario you mentioned, and nothing at all to do with the accident, couldn't you just take off downwind in the first place? It's a perfectly good weapon in the armoury, though not one you would want to use all the time. It seems to me that turning downwind with no airspeed would also make you a prime candidate for vortex ring.

 

I once had a good argument with an inspector in UK who threatened to ground me because I was taking off downwind, where emergency vehicles had access and there were no obstacles, rather than into wind into just such a situation as you describe, and all sorts of other difficulties.

 

This is not meant as a criticism, I'm just curious!

 

Phil

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B)

4961 - taking the last scenario you mentioned, and nothing at all to do with the accident, couldn't you just take off downwind in the first place? It's a perfectly good weapon in the armoury, though not one you would want to use all the time. It seems to me that turning downwind with no airspeed would also make you a prime candidate for vortex ring.

 

I once had a good argument with an inspector in UK who threatened to ground me because I was taking off downwind, where emergency vehicles had access and there were no obstacles, rather than into wind into just such a situation as you describe, and all sorts of other difficulties.

 

This is not meant as a criticism, I'm just curious!

 

Phil

 

Good point.

You can in fact just take off downwind, and some do (me), with success too.

My argument against it is simple, (not that I'm right either) I just figure that if nothing else I can climb out into wind a gain some airspeed and altitude. By the time that I turn back and pass the original take off point I will have at least that in my pocket (airspeed, altitude, ideas).

I'm not against being downwind, as long as you know what you're up against, sometimes it's the way to go.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, I just wish that I knew them all.

 

The most worrisome transport rides that I have ever had were the ones that there was only one way, theirs. I always pull into a ride situation (giving or taking) with the idea that I'm going to get something out of this. I hope that this never changes.

 

No criticism taken, I'm curious too. B)

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4961, good points, Today I was faced with a situation, Full load of skiers ,do I take off into wind with the slope climbing in font of me and gain altitude then turn down wind, do I have enough power to climb against the terrain, Or turn downwind and clutch on to the seat cushion with the twins and hold my breath.

You have to know what your up against and weigh the options and the performance of the aircraft. I chose to climb up hill hold max continuous and then right turn after gaining some alttude and at least I had that going for me.

Like you say there is many ways to skin a cat.

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Downwind:

 

Some things to keep in mind;

 

1) Visibility, you may be in the snowball longer than intended and with no stakes or reference could turn ugly.

 

2) Multibladed a/c like astar do not mind being downwind, often can come clean quickly by overotation, not sure but could be the t/r in clean air...

 

3) Two blades are not as happy downwind, but if you turn down wind in hover vertical up some then "go for it" does work. Have been with a few pilots who hover into wind and vertical up as much as possible the right turn out, does work in steady high wind but am not to keen on it.

 

Into wind:

 

1) You may not gain enough altitude/airspeed to help you as much as you require for the downwind turn.

 

2) You are climbing not only into rising terrain but the closer you get to the terrain infront of you the more the downflowing air component will affect the aircraft. You must try to climb as high as possible, MAX takeoff power can be held for five minutes, and suggest that is held until past the original take off point and good airspeed is attained. Some folks will argue for days which is better a/s or altitude, do what you feel comfortable with and what works for the terrain/wind.

 

3) While climbing into wind towards terrain, you better have already planned your turn direction, keep in mind how the terrain is affecting the wind and beware of high winds and smooth yet steep terrain as it can be very laminar yet high downflow. I like to either be behind steep terrain in rough air or out in the open in very flat terrain.

 

4) Be wary of glaciers in warm temps as the boundary layer of air will most likely be downflow and can be very thin layer 10-20 feet and can be STRONG.

 

Another little hint,,,5 mph ~ 440 fpm so doesn't take much downflow to ruin your day.

 

And there is no"always do it this way" must keep all options available and plan each takeoff accordingly. Chatting with the guide while they are getting in is recipe for dissaster, keep your eyes open, watch the snow moving along the ground with the blades turning, look at the snow movement along the rocks and such nearby, ask pertinant questions like how was the wind coming down the run, strong, gusty, switching directions? Remember the next few minutes could take a lifetime.

 

sc

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