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shakey

ORNGE Crash

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20 hours ago, Blackmac said:

Thanks for keeping the wheels greased and the Court Documents.

I do believe quite a few organizations need to take a refresher course in "Risk Management", including Transport Canada and their so-called inspectors and ORNGE should have their Operating Certificate cancelled and turn the operation over to the private sector, who have to answer to the insurance companies to keep things inline.

Any other operator, operating in the fashion that ORNGE does, would have had their OC cancelled.

I'm still amazed that the industry is not talking to their local MP's and or the NDP.:wub:    GO TRANSPORT CANADA

I'm still amazed people vote NDP.

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I believe both pilots were IFR rated. There are Helicopters and Fixed wing that depart nightly with pilots only holding night ratings and a lot of them depart into the dark away from lights. Almost none of them us our have access to NVG.  They all depart and return  

 

There is this thing called CRM for 2 crew environment. First thing they teach you is in every pre flight briefing you need to decide in the event of an emergency who will fliy the aircraft and who will trouble shot the problem.  I can’t help but wonder if both pilots got fixated on a problem and forgot to fly the aircraft. 

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I don't think there was any ongoing issue noted. I think they just started their turn too early and were trying to use visual cues that were not there. Trust me, we do a LOT of this stuff in the dusk/dark/white-on-white stuff, and it takes all you got to get you up the first 500 feet. you have to be on the ball 100% of the time.

These 4 guys got unlucky and 1 moment of inattention probably was all that was needed. If you google Night VFR accidents you'll find a few. Even in this case it was agreed upon that it was anything BUT Night VFR...

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8 hours ago, Winnie said:

I don't think there was any ongoing issue noted. I think they just started their turn too early and were trying to use visual cues that were not there. Trust me, we do a LOT of this stuff in the dusk/dark/white-on-white stuff, and it takes all you got to get you up the first 500 feet. you have to be on the ball 100% of the time.

These 4 guys got unlucky and 1 moment of inattention probably was all that was needed. If you google Night VFR accidents you'll find a few. Even in this case it was agreed upon that it was anything BUT Night VFR...

On the way from the Bell Plant in Fort Worth to Norfolk Virginia, I was in the lead with two other B212's trailing behind, when we started to encounter cloud cover at 4000ft, the Bell Pilot who was with me said climb to 4500ft. In the ensuing discussion I advised him that under Canadian Regs, VFR flying above the clouds was a no,no. I told him politely that we would proceed under the cloud cover and if it got worse we would land. We proceeded to Norfolk VFR.

I was the one who was Captain of my 212 and the others TWO were advised to obey my instructions, in other words follow the leader.

Do not under any circumstance put other people in jeopardy if the flight is in question.

The person they were going to pick up should have been done under Day VFR.

I flew out of Great Whale in 1957 on the Mid Canada Doppler Detection System and surveyed the road and bridges from Matagami to LG-2 in the early seventies. So I know the area well.

DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT WAS DISCUSSED IN THE PRE-FLIGHT ROOM????   

 

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