Pilots leaving the industry

[Twin Helix]

4 hours ago, just looking said:

Sorry i have to disagree. New pilots are defiantly lined up. However companies are asking for rediculous PIC time like 2,000 TT and 500 on type. Low timers can't get jobs as they don't have the hours. 

That's definitely MY situation.  Seems that perseverance doesn't count for much either.  After 5+ years 'paying dues', I'm starting to think it's being held against me that so many companies just won't fly their ground guys.  If anyone has pull, I'd love to finally find a company with the integrity to reward loyalty and hard work with some stick time.

[ramen rider]

Integrity in aviation operators, ha, good one!  As long as we low timers are a dime a dozen, operators will treat us like crap. 

Doesn't really matter how many high time guys leave for greener pastures, there will always be plenty of guys who have been nipping at their heels waiting to replace them.

Should have stuck with stuck wing!  Oh well to late now, McDonald's management training program here I come.

[EXP88]

11 hours ago, just looking said:

Sorry i have to disagree. New pilots are defiantly lined up. However companies are asking for rediculous PIC time like 2,000 TT and 500 on type. Low timers can't get jobs as they don't have the hours. 

Why is 2000hrs PIC and 500hrs on type ridiculous?

That's a reasonable request for most VFR work in BC.

 

[R0T0R]

This issue was created by operators being too short sighted. The long game is what matters in the industry but they don’t see past the next cheque they need to write. Low timers and high timers need investment in order to garner loyalty and skill. There are some real shitheads out the that ruined it to some degree but employers should recognize when they have the real deal. 

There are some talented low time guys out there that could really help round out the roster but people would rather have seasonal guys they can kick to the curb ASAP than take the time to really developers skill in a small group that could really pay dividends for years to come. 

Take the guys in Mac with the flaming ships. They used to care about the people they work with but now they rather stan in front of a camera. That used to be the best place to work but now it’s all about money. 

The mins aren’t ridiculous. There is a degree of skill required to get the work done but there needs to be push back from operators to get lower time guys in the seat on other jobs. Risk mitigation through extended training would be a way to sell it to clients. 

They don’t want to piss off the customers so they just go with it. Just like the stagnant rates in this industry. Why are the clients deciding what the tarif should be?!?!?! 

[just looking]

14 hours ago, EXP88 said:

Why is 2000hrs PIC and 500hrs on type ridiculous?

That's a reasonable request for most VFR work in BC.

 

First of 2,000 hours flying tours and to the same well sites day after day does not necessarily make you a better pilot. If you cannot figure out the feel and systems on a machine at 200 hours 500 may not help much.

I know pilots with 5,000 hours that scare the crap out of drillers on a long line. I have also seen pilots with 500 hours total time fly a long line that impress’s every one they work with. I have also witnessed guys with well over 2,000 hours that couldn’t think for themselves in the bush.

Some operators like to claim 2,000 hours is an insurance requirement. I don’t know an insurance company that will not sell you insurance based on Total time. They will give you a better rate if you guarantee High Total time minimums.

Some companies use the high minimums to recruit from other countries. They put  out advertisements hoping no one will apply. No applications our unqualified applications make it easy to get Visa for out of country pilots. I wonder how quick companies would drop their minimums if the Federal Government refused all Visa for pilots.

The moral why not hire people based on their ability not their hours. How do you expect people to get 2,000 hours and learn if know one wants to hire them until they have 2,000 hours. 

[maxtorqe]

49 minutes ago, just looking said:

First of 2,000 hours flying tours and to the same well sites day after day does not necessarily make you a better pilot. If you cannot figure out the feel and systems on a machine at 200 hours 500 may not help much.

I know pilots with 5,000 hours that scare the crap out of drillers on a long line. I have also seen pilots with 500 hours total time fly a long line that impress’s every one they work with. I have also witnessed guys with well over 2,000 hours that couldn’t think for themselves in the bush.

Some operators like to claim 2,000 hours is an insurance requirement. I don’t know an insurance company that will not sell you insurance based on Total time. They will give you a better rate if you guarantee High Total time minimums.

Some companies use the high minimums to recruit from other countries. They put  out advertisements hoping no one will apply. No applications our unqualified applications make it easy to get Visa for out of country pilots. I wonder how quick companies would drop their minimums if the Federal Government refused all Visa for pilots.

The moral why not hire people based on their ability not their hours. How do you expect people to get 2,000 hours and learn if know one wants to hire them until they have 2,000 hours. 

Well said

[ramen rider]

1 hour ago, just looking said:

First of 2,000 hours flying tours and to the same well sites day after day does not necessarily make you a better pilot. If you cannot figure out the feel and systems on a machine at 200 hours 500 may not help much.

I know pilots with 5,000 hours that scare the crap out of drillers on a long line. I have also seen pilots with 500 hours total time fly a long line that impress’s every one they work with. I have also witnessed guys with well over 2,000 hours that couldn’t think for themselves in the bush.

Some operators like to claim 2,000 hours is an insurance requirement. I don’t know an insurance company that will not sell you insurance based on Total time. They will give you a better rate if you guarantee High Total time minimums.

Some companies use the high minimums to recruit from other countries. They put  out advertisements hoping no one will apply. No applications our unqualified applications make it easy to get Visa for out of country pilots. I wonder how quick companies would drop their minimums if the Federal Government refused all Visa for pilots.

The moral why not hire people based on their ability not their hours. How do you expect people to get 2,000 hours and learn if know one wants to hire them until they have 2,000 hours. 

yep!

[EXP88]

4 hours ago, just looking said:

First of 2,000 hours flying tours and to the same well sites day after day does not necessarily make you a better pilot. If you cannot figure out the feel and systems on a machine at 200 hours 500 may not help much.

I know pilots with 5,000 hours that scare the crap out of drillers on a long line. I have also seen pilots with 500 hours total time fly a long line that impress’s every one they work with. I have also witnessed guys with well over 2,000 hours that couldn’t think for themselves in the bush.

Some operators like to claim 2,000 hours is an insurance requirement. I don’t know an insurance company that will not sell you insurance based on Total time. They will give you a better rate if you guarantee High Total time minimums.

Some companies use the high minimums to recruit from other countries. They put  out advertisements hoping no one will apply. No applications our unqualified applications make it easy to get Visa for out of country pilots. I wonder how quick companies would drop their minimums if the Federal Government refused all Visa for pilots.

The moral why not hire people based on their ability not their hours. How do you expect people to get 2,000 hours and learn if know one wants to hire them until they have 2,000 hours. 

I agree with you on some points...total time does not necessarily make a better pilot but I would be scared to death of a person who thinks they're a hotshot longline pilot at 500 hours.

The reason I don't look at pilots with less than 2000hrs PIC (5-7 years) is I want someone with a reputation and proven work experience.  When a pilot reaches 2000hrs PIC they have revealed the type of person they are and the potential they have within our industry.

Insurance is an issue but the bigger issue is contract minimums set by our customers, they pay our bills so therefore they set the minimum pilot requirements.

I am most certainly opposed to hiring foreign pilots, there are plenty of qualified Canadian pilots if you're providing a good schedule and decent wage.  (and you can't pay a decent wage when you're sending your B2 to BC from eastern Canada at $900 hour)

[Twin Helix]

29 minutes ago, EXP88 said:

I agree with you on some points...total time does not necessarily make a better pilot but I would be scared to death of a person who thinks they're a hotshot longline pilot at 500 hours.

The reason I don't look at pilots with less than 2000hrs PIC (5-7 years) is I want someone with a reputation and proven work experience.  When a pilot reaches 2000hrs PIC they have revealed the type of person they are and the potential they have within our industry.

Insurance is an issue but the bigger issue is contract minimums set by our customers, they pay our bills so therefore they set the minimum pilot requirements.

I am most certainly opposed to hiring foreign pilots, there are plenty of qualified Canadian pilots if you're providing a good schedule and decent wage.  (and you can't pay a decent wage when you're sending your B2 to BC from eastern Canada at $900 hour)

I applaud your opposition to foreign pilots.  That being said, do you take an active role in getting Canadian pilots to 2000 hours?  So many companies refuse to train low-timers citing a fear of someone else poaching them once they have hours.  Train some new talent, treat them fairly and make it an industry standard.  A company that doesn't create 2000 hour pilots should have no expectation of employing them.  Not aimed at any specific person/company, just an opinion.

[shakey]

1 hour ago, Twin Helix said:

I applaud your opposition to foreign pilots.  That being said, do you take an active role in getting Canadian pilots to 2000 hours?  So many companies refuse to train low-timers citing a fear of someone else poaching them once they have hours.  Train some new talent, treat them fairly and make it an industry standard.  A company that doesn't create 2000 hour pilots should have no expectation of employing them.  Not aimed at any specific person/company, just an opinion.

I feel for you Twin Helix. Most of us have been there. Albeit it at different times of this frustrating ride. The temporary foreign worker program (and holiday visa) created a huge glut of pilots (and people who hate me) who decided to stay. A lot of the people that said they had 2 to 3 thousand hours in fact weren't lying they had 2 to 3000 hours. I had a friend and mentor tell me years ago that he booked a .5 walking by a machine.(He is one of the best guys on a line or whiskey bottle I've ever met) I didn't take his advice and did it the honest way. It took a while but looking back it wouldn't of made a difference. Do what you have to do. This industry lost any resemblance of ethics long ago. Good luck 

PS. I bet a lot of low time guys are mad they can't even get a job at McDonalds because of said program.  We westerners have little foresight.