Is M1/M2 license classified solely on the MTOW of the aircraft?

[ray]

CARS 566.03:

M1: All non turbo jet aircraft

M2: All aircraft not included in M1

[johnson4]

19 hours ago, Heliian said:

From CARS 527

(a) This Chapter sets out airworthiness standards for the issue of type certificates and changes to those type certificates, for normal category rotorcraft with maximum mass (weights) of 3,175 kg (7,000 lbs.) or less and nine or less passenger seats.
(amended 2009/12/01)

Anything above this is Transport Category.  This does not vary by inspector.

So 212 & 205 are both transport?

[Three_Per]

On 11/7/2018 at 6:57 PM, ray said:

Not correct. Former coworker got an M2 working on AS350s. M2 for turbine powered helicopter 

So a mistake was made at the TC office that reviewed his application. The definitions in the CARs are pretty clear.  

 

The only grey area that I can think of is an aircraft that’s certified as normal category but has the ability to operate at MGTOW higher than 7000lbs, Like the Bell 429

[Three_Per]

6 hours ago, johnson4 said:

So 212 & 205 are both transport?

Yes. 

[johnson4]

I guess no matter how clear the regs are, results will vary. I had an inspector  put all my 205 tasks under M1 and 212 under M2

[ray]

Airworthiness Manual 566 (Licensing) states the following:

566.08(b)

(b) Holders of either an M1 or M2 rated AME licence also have maintenance release privileges for all:
(amended 2003/09/01)

(i) turbine powered helicopters; 

 

You can have either M1 or M2 for all turbine powered helicopters.

[Heliian]

On 11/20/2018 at 8:21 PM, ray said:

Airworthiness Manual 566 (Licensing) states the following:

566.08(b)

(b) Holders of either an M1 or M2 rated AME licence also have maintenance release privileges for all:
(amended 2003/09/01)

(i) turbine powered helicopters; 

 

You can have either M1 or M2 for all turbine powered helicopters.

We aren't denying that, as you need a type course for turbine helicopters to sign one out. M1 or M2 + type course= signing authority on that turbine helicopter.  

 This post is about initial training in which the licences given will be according to the type worked on during apprenticeship.  It's very simple, 70% tasks on normal cat a/c = m1, 70% tasks on transport category= m2.  You should know this by the time you finish school and your inspector should know this.  If the inspector is giving conflicting information then call him out on it.  The mistakes are usually made by long time fixed wing inspectors with no rotary background.

[drkrider]

On 11/23/2018 at 6:29 AM, Heliian said:

We aren't denying that, as you need a type course for turbine helicopters to sign one out. M1 or M2 + type course= signing authority on that turbine helicopter.  

 This post is about initial training in which the licences given will be according to the type worked on during apprenticeship.  It's very simple, 70% tasks on normal cat a/c = m1, 70% tasks on transport category= m2.  You should know this by the time you finish school and your inspector should know this.  If the inspector is giving conflicting information then call him out on it.  The mistakes are usually made by long time fixed wing inspectors with no rotary background.

To add to Heliian's post,

On the fixed wing side no type course is required from turbine powered aircraft unless they are transport category. This is why those old time fix wing inspectors get confused. So if you were to switch over to a fixed wing company running King Airs and Beech 1900s not operated in 705, as long as the company's MPM and PRM are satisfied that you are competent enough to sign out a King Air or 1900 you can be ACA'd with no type course. Even though they are more complicated aircraft then your basic Bell or Airbus Helicopters.

Not sure I like it but that's the way the reg's are written.   

[Heliian]

16 hours ago, drkrider said:

. Even though they are more complicated aircraft then your basic Bell or Airbus Helicopters.

  

pffffft.

[GrayHorizons]

less complicated means better designed 🙂