New Fatigue Regulations

[SwingWing]

1 hour ago, Lunchbox said:

...but AMEs can still be flogged 25 hrs a day... 🤪

It’s funny how some operators think that because it’s not in the CAR’s,  you can work an engineer 16 hour days for 3 months straight.  

Canada Labour code would take precedence,  the new pilot regulations now align themselves more with that. 

The big Construction companies are even having a hard time getting they’re exemptions to work 16 hours,  without that it’s 12 max.  24 days max,  4 days off.  Sound familiar?

Long overdue in my opinion.

[Freewheel]

2 hours ago, SwingWing said:

It’s funny how some operators think that because it’s not in the CAR’s,  you can work an engineer 16 hour days for 3 months straight.  

Canada Labour code would take precedence,  the new pilot regulations now align themselves more with that. 

The big Construction companies are even having a hard time getting they’re exemptions to work 16 hours,  without that it’s 12 max.  24 days max,  4 days off.  Sound familiar?

Long overdue in my opinion.

The Canada Labour Code has always taken precedence over the CARs for pilots; however the CLC allows for averaging agreements which provide for deviance from many of the regular CLC requirements.

Averaging agreements are used in many industries. Case in point: My wife just got home from a 15 hour Duty day (working on a train, under an averaging agreement).

 

[SwingWing]

Yes,  there are averaging agreements,  not everyone uses them though,  or knows about them.

Unfortunately those are the one part of Labour code that seems to favor the employer. 

[Bif]

12 hours ago, Freewheel said:

The Canada Labour Code has always taken precedence over the CARs for pilots; however the CLC allows for averaging agreements which provide for deviance from many of the regular CLC requirements.

Averaging agreements are used in many industries. Case in point: My wife just got home from a 15 hour Duty day (working on a train, under an averaging agreement).

 

Which is all fine and good until your employer tries to convince you that time spent with the client in the field doesn't count as work, and so you're only entitled to bank flight time + 2 hours against your averaging agreement. AND claims they have Labour Canada's backing on that. 

Which is funny because Labour Canada says the exact opposite and even goes so far as to cite a court decision involving a rotary operator.

[SwingWing]

34 minutes ago, Bif said:

Which is all fine and good until your employer tries to convince you that time spent with the client in the field doesn't count as work, and so you're only entitled to bank flight time + 2 hours against your averaging agreement. AND claims they have Labour Canada's backing on that. 

Which is funny because Labour Canada says the exact opposite and even goes so far as to cite a court decision involving a rotary operator.

That is the unfortunate side of averaging agreements,  once employee signs on,  you lose a lot of rights under Labour code.  

So as an employee remember that when you’re presented with one of those,  not much you can do if everyone is already on board,  but at least educate yourselves on how they work and how you’re legally able to work those hours,  if they’re being used correctly,  etc... 

[robottxt]

2 hours ago, Bif said:

Which is funny because Labour Canada says the exact opposite and even goes so far as to cite a court decision involving a rotary operator.

Can you provide a link to those court decision?

[GrayHorizons]

so,forgive me if i seem dumb today, but will an averaging agreement, should it be approved, overrule any of this new regulation?

 

Incidentally, my employer is an @sshole, he makes me work terrible hours all for the benefit of money. jerk.

[DGP]

There is no life like it...or is that someone else's motto!

[Bif]

6 hours ago, SwingWing said:

That is the unfortunate side of averaging agreements,  once employee signs on,  you lose a lot of rights under Labour code.  

So as an employee remember that when you’re presented with one of those,  not much you can do if everyone is already on board,  but at least educate yourselves on how they work and how you’re legally able to work those hours,  if they’re being used correctly,  etc... 

None of these specifics are addressed by the wording of the averaging agreement that all us helicopter pilots are subject to. It's the same boiler plate basically stating that overtime will not be paid out unless you surpass 2080hrs on the year. The document does not define what does / does not constitute hours worked.

For those interested, here is the link to the Labour Code information, attached is a pdf of the same.

Note the case cited in

What is meant by the term “work”?

The Labour Program takes the view that work must be given a common sense or practical meaning in the context of certain industries and established practices. Flexibility to define “work” and what is to be paid for should generally be left to the employee and employer to negotiate.

See: Ian Wilson and Airborne Energy Solutions Ltd. (YM2727-1457) 

In general, an employee is performing “work" when the employee:
 

• is on any trial period or training required by the employer;
   
• is on travel time required by the employer;
   
• is at the employer’s disposal on the worksite and the employee is required to wait for work to be assigned or is assigned work outside their normal responsibilities; and
   
• is on a scheduled break granted by the employer.

Labor Canada Definition of Work.pdf

[Bif]

4 hours ago, GrayHorizons said:

so,forgive me if i seem dumb today, but will an averaging agreement, should it be approved, overrule any of this new regulation?

 

Incidentally, my employer is an @sshole, he makes me work terrible hours all for the benefit of money. jerk.

In short, no. The averaging agreement has to do only with overtime hours per the Canada Labour Code, and how you are paid out by the employer. The new regulations this thread was started about are CARs regs pertaining to the allowable lengths of duty days, rest periods, and flight time. So no, they are no overruled. The new regs, however could impact your averaging agreement in that it will be somewhat harder to get ahead of the average during a busy summer (limited to 8-13 hours vs 14), and thus be paid out less in the off season, or receive less paid time off.