Astar MRG and TRG oil

[bh205]

What are people running for oil in the Astar (BA/B2) gearboxes during the winter or full time?

Are most aware that there is a minimum temp of -20 when using Mobile254?

[GrayHorizons]

I just googled it, because google is never wrong.

and the page lists operation down to -40C

 

https://www.mobil.com/english-us/aviation/pds/glxxmobil-jet-oil-254

[bh205]

With mineral oil only or mobile jet2 (mobile jet 2 cannot be used above zero though) as per the rfm

11 minutes ago, GrayHorizons said:

I just googled it, because google is never wrong.

and the page lists operation down to -40C

 

https://www.mobil.com/english-us/aviation/pds/glxxmobil-jet-oil-254

 

[bh205]

The latest revision attached. 

[Blackmac]

I still can't understand why people get on this site to ask another person(s) for information on something that effects the Airworthiness of an aircraft, I personally, would go to the source, the Manufacturer.

Shades of the days of loosing the lateral control on an S55 with the servo freezing up below 30 degrees *F, the servo was behind the air intake for the main xmsn.

Bell 206 originally had hydraulic fluid in the M/R blade grips, what a mess on the head with leaks. Bell cured the problem by allowing the grips to be filled with grease, 30 below temp, cyclic would freeze sitting on the ground. 

[bh205]

3 minutes ago, Blackmac said:

I still can't understand why people get on this site to ask another person(s) for information on something that effects the Airworthiness of an aircraft, I personally, would go to the source, the Manufacturer.

Shades of the days of loosing the lateral control on an S55 with the servo freezing up below 30 degrees *F, the servo was behind the air intake for the main xmsn.

Bell 206 originally had hydraulic fluid in the M/R blade grips, what a mess on the head with leaks. Bell cured the problem by allowing the grips to be filled with grease, 30 below temp, cyclic would freeze sitting on the ground. 

First, that was a statement that has nothing to do with the question,

We have gone to the source and they are looking into why there is a difference between the B3 (which allows you to run synthetic oil below minus 20) and the B2/BA - but this is a multi-year program it seems.  I ask this out loud because it seems like most operators and pilots are doing what we normally do otherwise Airbus would have corrected this issue long ago and if we don't bring it up as a group then the manufacturer will never change it and we will all be operating outside of the RFM.  This was brought to light by a very diligent CP  that is a religious RFM reader and missed it for years.  I just can't believe there is not a liter of mineral oil in this country if we are all supposed to be running it, so that leads me to believe that most, if not all, are running synthetic.  

Isn't this supposed to be a place where you can bring up concerns, compliments, etc about our industry to have a discussion about it - or should we just hide our heads in the sand?

[R0T0R]

49 minutes ago, bh205 said:

First, that was a statement that has nothing to do with the question,

We have gone to the source and they are looking into why there is a difference between the B3 (which allows you to run synthetic oil below minus 20) and the B2/BA - but this is a multi-year program it seems.  I ask this out loud because it seems like most operators and pilots are doing what we normally do otherwise Airbus would have corrected this issue long ago and if we don't bring it up as a group then the manufacturer will never change it and we will all be operating outside of the RFM.  This was brought to light by a very diligent CP  that is a religious RFM reader and missed it for years.  I just can't believe there is not a liter of mineral oil in this country if we are all supposed to be running it, so that leads me to believe that most, if not all, are running synthetic.  

Isn't this supposed to be a place where you can bring up concerns, compliments, etc about our industry to have a discussion about it - or should we just hide our heads in the sand?

Well said!

[Hazy]

When I worked for a company that had these machines, we would to the drain and flush and changer over each Spring and Fall.  It was a pain in the bottom, but we did it. 

[Blackmac]

Sorry for the confusion I seem to have created, I guess I should read my SMS manual again.

Maufacturers are responsible and can be held responsible for what ever they provide and sign in writing.

After you crash and the TSB finds out it was due to the wrong oil in the main or tail rotor gear box, your Insurance Company is going to be very unhappy and I beleive you will be also.

File an emergency A.O.G. to TCCA and a copy to the Manufacturer.

If you believe that you are going to get a consensus of opion on this site you are really dreaming, you are probably the first person to beleive this is a learning site, welcome.

You should call AirBus in Fort Erie and ask to speak to the CEO and not the support staff. Put exactlly what you said originally in your post and a copy to your Insurance Company and explain to the CEO that you are in violation of ICAO and TCCA regulations for not adherring to the RFM. 

Advise the CEO that you will be seeking compensation for lost revenue.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Blackmac
change wording

[bh205]

47 minutes ago, Blackmac said:

Sorry for the confusion I seem to have created, I guess I should read my SMS manual again.

Maufacturers are responsible and can be held responsible for what ever they provide and sign in writing.

After you crash and the TSB finds out it was due to the wrong oil in the main or tail rotor gear box, your Insurance Company is going to be very unhappy and I beleive you will be also.

File an emergency A.O.G. to TCCA and a copy to the Manufacturer.

If you believe that you are going to get a consensus of opion on this site you are really dreaming, you are probably the first person to beleive this is a learning site, welcome.

You should call AirBus in Fort Erie and ask to speak to the CEO and not the support staff. Put exactlly what you said originally in your post and a copy to your Insurance Company and explain to the CEO that you are in violation of ICAO and TCCA regulations for not adherring to the RFM. 

Advise the CEO that you will be seeking compensation for lost revenue.

8

If you believe that you are going to get a consensus of opion on this site you are really dreaming, you are probably the first person to beleive this is a learning site, welcome.

I am not looking for an opinion or trying to "learn" anything, I was asking as to how other operators/pilots are dealing with this issue of gearbox oil and temperatures and I will form my own opinion.  

After you crash and the TSB finds out it was due to the wrong oil in the main or tail rotor gear box, your Insurance Company is going to be very unhappy and I beleive you will be also.

That is a little brash.  I am adhering to the limitations set in the RFM.

As I said before, Airbus is in the loop.

As I asked before, I am just curious as to how other operators/pilots are dealing with the gearbox oil and temperature restrictions.  Being that mineral oil is really the only answer to dealing with temperature swings (the downside is a thicker oil that it has a tendency to blow seals), or are they switching oils, or are they even aware that this limitation is in the RFM.  I have spoken to a few operators in the last few days and most are confused and thought it was the other way around or somewhere just unaware of this limitation.  So in this case, this forum can be a learning tool.

As I said before, the inability to find mineral oil in this country leads me to believe that this is not a well-known limitation or everyone is switching oils seasonally.

BTW, spell check is a thing that can be used even on this forum.  Accurate grammar and spelling adds a lot to credibility. 

*Thank you Hazy for your meaningful contribution to my question, that is what I am looking for*