406 instead of a 505

[DGP]

Why did Bell give us a 505 to replace the 206 instead of the already produced 406 that the US military had been using for years. I think operators would just get a L4 instead of going for a 505. Not sure if any 505 are working in Canada. The 406 would probably have reduced the 407 sales but we will never know. I am sure they would have sold more of them than they have sold 505's.

[R0T0R]

I suspect it’s to keep some distance between the “406” and the 407. They are in the business of selling machines after all. Also, they probably all a ton of 206 parts they need to get rid of!😂 ie. rotor head...

[bh205]

4 minutes ago, DGP said:

Why did Bell give us a 505 to replace the 206 instead of the already produced 406 that the US military had been using for years. I think operators would just get a L4 instead of going for a 505. Not sure if any 505 are working in Canada. The 406 would probably have reduced the 407 sales but we will never know. I am sure they would have sold more of them than they have sold 505's.

The market is moving to a flat floor aircraft - hence the AS350 being so popular.  I have had many passengers complain about the Bell layout compared to an Astar product.  Personally, I prefer a Bell to fly in but that doesn't matter if the customers don't want it.  I am sure there are many more reasons why Bell decided on the 505 over other platforms.

[Blackmac]

Not sure, but I would say the 406 is not FAA approved, hence military parts and not commercially available.

Canadian owned 412's Griffon's are off the shelf FAA approved machines, modified for military use and can be sold on the commercial market after modifications are removed.

The  original (212) were military a/c owned by the US State Department returned, refurbished and sent to Columbia. The Canadian Government got back the original cost $400,000.00 per a/c.

🤑🤑

Don

[DGP]

I would think if you could get a 406 which has a 650 HP engine in a jetbox airframe  for what they are selling a 505 for which seems to be $1.3 mil that they would definitely be a seller....my 2 cents. With the smaller airframe I would think it would lift 3 grand on the hook. But we will never know. I mentioned this to a bell rep at the hai once as I was sitting in a 505.  He seemed disinterested! As if to say this is what we got...go for it. I think not! I am sure they could have certified the 406 for civy use with very little  problem. The drive train is either 206l parts or 407 parts . Engine was a C30. I think Bell also made a big mistake not using the C30 in the 505. That engine is bullet proof! What money was spent changing the already proven L4 engine and drive train over to some thing totally different. Seems strange! I don't see the 505 taking over for the 206.

[GrayHorizons]

I browsed the Civil Register, and only saw maybe a half dozen that werent registered to Bell.

and even then, it seems like some of them were only registered to be re-sold judging by the registered owner.

Its evidently clear that the sales in Canada are sluggish.

Depending who you talk to, they are gold, or bronze on the podium.

I'm one of the naysayers. I cant stand how it looks and therefore totally ignore the performance numbers. I really want nothing to do with them until I'm at the stage in my career where I dont have the choice. then I'll bite my tongue and become a supporter. Sheepishly dragging my toolbox into the hanger and putting on a fake smile.

 

Had a "406" version been offered, I likely would have be more impressed and interested. With no military add-ons, that thing would have been a stump puller for sure.

 

[johnson4]

6 hours ago, DGP said:

 I think Bell also made a big mistake not using the C30 in the 505. That engine is bullet proof! What money was spent changing the already proven L4 engine and drive train over to some thing totally different. Seems strange! I don't see the 505 taking over for the 206.

Far as I know, the 505 drivetrain is entirely L4, right down to the freewheel

[DGP]

For sure the 505 is one ugly looking thing. The old jetbox was and still is one beautiful design. I saw an artists rendition of what Bell had in mind before they threw the 505 at us. It looked much like a 406 but a lot racier ....you can probably find it on google somewhere. The description at the time said it would have a flat floor design. Why they deep sixed it is a mystery. Who would buy a 505 when you can still get an L4 other than the price. Also heard from a friend that flew a 505 for a demo flight for a customer that it does not have a throttle on the collective...what???? another good reason to say no thanks.

[DGP]

Yes but they didn't give it a RR C30 engine. Engine is from France. Wait until you need parts or an  O/H on that engine....

[Heliian]

11 hours ago, DGP said:

Yes but they didn't give it a RR C30 engine. Engine is from France. Wait until you need parts or an  O/H on that engine....

Why? The arrius is used in many aircraft and it's more efficient.  In this config its 505hp max.  I will surmise also that the overhaul costs are similar to a c20, if it had a fadec.