The original "ORANGE"?

[GrayHorizons]

21 hours ago, Heliian said:

 

 What do you think is a good salary?  What do you think they're making at Ornge now?

Such hypocritical comments here!  99% of the time people ***** about not getting enough pay and benefits but when someone does get decent pay and benefits you want to strike it down and cut salaries?  Do you think that the front line staff of a 24hr ems operation should be cheap, inexperienced people?  Should the pilots and engineers of any aviation company be staffed with the cheapest idiots out there?

I suggest you apply at Ornge, they're hiring.  

you can google the salaries and make the comparison yourself. I'm not your google *****.

The paramedics and the pilots, even some maintenance staff are well published across the country. You can see the disparity quite clearly for the same work. The manageers are even more top heavy than the most wasteful private sector company.

Its only my opinion, so you can have your own. You aren't going to change my mind easily nor am I going to change yours. 

[GrayHorizons]

21 hours ago, Heliian said:

Staffing costs would offset aircraft costs and the 135 or 429 are not suitable for this environment.  You'd have to use 145's or 76C+++'s which cost only slightly less than the 139.

what environment? a made up requirement for the biggest and most costly aircraft. Its the cadillac of a/c. 

While I agree some trauma flights would benefit, I'm looking at the big picture. 

 a simple astar would work for many of the flights they do.

but again, only my opinion, which you dont share. 

[GrayHorizons]

to comment about scene landings.

The Ornge website details their requirements. the landing zone is on a stable surface such as concrete, ashphalt, packed gravel or grass and 150ft X 150ft

You're not going to find that in too many off road scene calls.

I also have issue with range comments, especially in the south of ontario.  Toronto as the hub can reach literally 3/4 of the provinces population in about 20 minutes. And if the weathers bad in toronto, it's likey also bad in london, hamilton st catherines, and up to ottawa. So they wont be launching anyways to worry about an alternate IFR landing. 

[GrayHorizons]

Contradictions of the day:

most are powered these days so they don't have to lift manually - I'm sure they have other boards and whatnot for manually loading. 

Staffing costs would offset aircraft costs - It's less than a fraction of a percent of the health care budget

 

 

[GrayHorizons]

18 hours ago, Heliian said:

The smaller aircraft lack range when equipped.  

 

you should dot a map with 200km radius circles. We will go with really short range of 400km (return to base) rather than the almost 700km range published, just to humor your statement. Why is the 139 the only option for range? when range is a non issue for the bulk of the flights?

put a circle at london, toronto, peterborough and ottawa (bases they already have)  and see how mucha rated, 2 pilot, 2 patient, 2 paramedic equipped aircraft can cover.

at 1/4 the cost of a 139, we could put two aircraft at every location and still be lower per hour on the variable costs, or spread them out to better cover the ontario landscape. I feel the service is better served with more for less. It needs an overhaul. its not OK running as it is.

Just my opinion still....

[Heliian]

4 hours ago, GrayHorizons said:

 

you should dot a map with 200km radius circles. We will go with really short range of 400km (return to base) rather than the almost 700km range published, just to humor your statement. Why is the 139 the only option for range? when range is a non issue for the bulk of the flights?

put a circle at london, toronto, peterborough and ottawa (bases they already have)  and see how mucha rated, 2 pilot, 2 patient, 2 paramedic equipped aircraft can cover.

at 1/4 the cost of a 139, we could put two aircraft at every location and still be lower per hour on the variable costs, or spread them out to better cover the ontario landscape. I feel the service is better served with more for less. It needs an overhaul. its not OK running as it is.

Just my opinion still....

how about sudbury, thunder bay, kenora and moosonee?  

You need enough range to dispatch, find/attend the scene or hospital and then return to another hospital.  VFR is easy, factor in IFR for critical patient transfers and your astar won't make it, neither will the 135 or 429(which btw did not have the upped gross weight approvals in place in Canada at the time).  

[Heliian]

5 hours ago, GrayHorizons said:

Contradictions of the day:

most are powered these days so they don't have to lift manually - I'm sure they have other boards and whatnot for manually loading. 

Staffing costs would offset aircraft costs - It's less than a fraction of a percent of the health care budget

 

 

You're not comprehending this.  At hospitals and on roads and like most land ambulances a powered stretcher is used.  When you're at a scene a board or scoop is used, the lift mechanism is in the stretcher.  http://www.fernoems.com/powerflexx

You wouldn't be able to staff all of your little helicopters and the costs would be higher than they are now.  Yes, still only a fraction of the budget.  

[Heliian]

5 hours ago, GrayHorizons said:

to comment about scene landings.

The Ornge website details their requirements. the landing zone is on a stable surface such as concrete, ashphalt, packed gravel or grass and 150ft X 150ft

You're not going to find that in too many off road scene calls.

I also have issue with range comments, especially in the south of ontario.  Toronto as the hub can reach literally 3/4 of the provinces population in about 20 minutes. And if the weathers bad in toronto, it's likey also bad in london, hamilton st catherines, and up to ottawa. So they wont be launching anyways to worry about an alternate IFR landing. 

Do you even know where ontario is on a map?  To say the the weather is the same from london to ottawa is ridiculous. 

[GrayHorizons]

2 hours ago, Heliian said:

how about sudbury, thunder bay, kenora and moosonee?  

You need enough range to dispatch, find/attend the scene or hospital and then return to another hospital.  VFR is easy, factor in IFR for critical patient transfers and your astar won't make it, neither will the 135 or 429(which btw did not have the upped gross weight approvals in place in Canada at the time).  

and i'm pretty sure the PC12's are there for that reason too

[GrayHorizons]

2 hours ago, Heliian said:

You're not comprehending this.  At hospitals and on roads and like most land ambulances a powered stretcher is used.  When you're at a scene a board or scoop is used, the lift mechanism is in the stretcher.  http://www.fernoems.com/powerflexx

You wouldn't be able to staff all of your little helicopters and the costs would be higher than they are now.  Yes, still only a fraction of the budget.  

how about we go single pilot...save a few buckeroos