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Blackmac

The original "ORANGE"?

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50 minutes ago, Three_Per said:

This right here. I have yet to have one of my “privatize it all” friends explain how they think a for profit entity can deliver the SAME service for less. There will always be compromise. Even at first glance it looks cheeper (initial contract) there will always be “added costs” at the end of the day.

Just look at the maintenance contract for the CH-146 fleet. The taxpayer is getting totally ******. But at least Bell is still making profits, am I rite!! 

Simple. A company like can CHL (just using them as an example because they used to run it and are a large operator) spread infrastructure costs across many contracts (parts stores, HR, etc.). Not to mention, they don't have to spend a ton of cash on negotiating with multiple unions, which also allows them to jettison the few toxic guys that make life **** for the organization. That's a lot of savings right there without any compromise. In fact, it might even be an improvement. What's more, in a non-unionized environment, a savvy operator will set targets for the bases as far as availability and maybe spread some of the wealth around if those targets are met. 

I'm not a "private always wins" kind of guy, but I do see pros and cons with both strategies.

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You make it sound like cutting corners is always on the safety side.

it's not

Paychecks for Ornge and all of it's heavy top side management as well as most of the employees is unattainable for the long term. Look at what the same workers get paid elsewhere and you wonder why there is such a disparity. Right off the bat if you control the over the top pay, that makes turning a profit in the private sector attainable.

Beyond that, the choice of aircraft is another good place to go.

I dont disagree that the 139 is a great aircraft. nor the PC12's. but c'mon really, patient transfers with the 139 economically sound??? 

I would rather see all the 139's sold and replaced with more EC135's or 429's, for more coverage and a lower operating cost. That's a decision that adds to the value, even if it doesn't really save a lot of $$$. 

 

Bottom line, Governments are for Governing, that's where they should be and any operations should be private sector business

I believe this should be the case in a lot more than just this little helicopter discussion.

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9 hours ago, rigidrotor said:

 Not to mention, they don't have to spend a ton of cash on negotiating with multiple unions, which also allows them to jettison the few toxic guys that make life **** for the organization. That's a lot of savings right there without any compromise. In fact, it might even be an improvement. What's more, in a non-unionized environment, a savvy operator will set targets for the bases as far as availability and maybe spread some of the wealth around if those targets are met. 

 

 

 What do you think is a good salary?  What do you think they're making at Ornge now?

Such hypocritical comments here!  99% of the time people ***** about not getting enough pay and benefits but when someone does get decent pay and benefits you want to strike it down and cut salaries?  Do you think that the front line staff of a 24hr ems operation should be cheap, inexperienced people?  Should the pilots and engineers of any aviation company be staffed with the cheapest idiots out there?

I suggest you apply at Ornge, they're hiring.  

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37 minutes ago, GrayHorizons said:

with more EC135's or 429's, for more coverage and a lower operating cost.

Staffing costs would offset aircraft costs and the 135 or 429 are not suitable for this environment.  You'd have to use 145's or 76C+++'s which cost only slightly less than the 139.

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Why aren't the 135 or 429 suitable? The 429 is also more similar to the 145 I believe.

They seem to be able to run 135s in places much more "rural" than most of Ontario...

Can put bigger aircraft in difficult locations like Moosonee if need be, but sure a mix of 135/145 would work fine. Just drop one paramedic on the 135. 

They'd also be able to make scene calls that are not on the road.

(I have no clue if they are or aren't doing scene calls, I just remember the 139 being criticized for not being able to do bush landings)

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2 hours ago, Winnie said:

Why aren't the 135 or 429 suitable? The 429 is also more similar to the 145 I believe.

They seem to be able to run 135s in places much more "rural" than most of Ontario...

Can put bigger aircraft in difficult locations like Moosonee if need be, but sure a mix of 135/145 would work fine. Just drop one paramedic on the 135. 

They'd also be able to make scene calls that are not on the road.

(I have no clue if they are or aren't doing scene calls, I just remember the 139 being criticized for not being able to do bush landings)

The smaller aircraft lack range when equipped.  Paramedics are required to be paired with another medic or doctor/nurse so dropping a body is not feasible.

The 139 is a helicopter and can land anywhere a helicopter can land.  They do scene calls all over the place and not just on roads.  There are several ems operators of 139's all over the world.  you can even get skis for it or winches.

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The AW139 on wheels can't land off the road in winter (snow) or the summer (high grass) and will only get worse when the NEW powered stretcher is installed, it is so heavy that it has to be motorized. Just imagine trying to carry one of those things. The EMT's with trucks can load with two people doing the job.

The whole medical system is so screwed, by incompetent people, it's a wonder that more people don't die. 

If a proper analysis was done in conjunction with the actual medical branch and transportation department and not people trying to build up their own empire, privatizing the whole the aviation branches of Orange, HydroOne, and OMNR.

The Government Procurement Department should be investigated by the Ontario Provincial Police, for bribery and accepting paid holidays to France.

If you don't believe me, ask the manufacturers

What about the new revelation involving THE PHARMACIES AND OHIP.

When the **** is the government going to get it's act together.??????

 

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3 hours ago, Blackmac said:

The AW139 on wheels can't land off the road in winter (snow) or the summer (high grass) and will only get worse when the NEW powered stretcher is installed, it is so heavy that it has to be motorized. Just imagine trying to carry one of those things. The EMT's with trucks can load with two people doing the job.

The big flat belly makes a great surface in deep snow.  Tall grass? Really?  I have plenty of pictures to prove it too.  As far as the medical side of things, sure, they probably could always be better. 

As far as stretcher systems go, most are powered these days so they don't have to lift manually.  It's not like they're going to wheel anything around in the bush either, I'm sure they have other boards and whatnot for manually loading. 

Just check out their Twitter and you'll find a variety of scene call photos and other useful information about what they do.

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If the originator (expert) of ORANGE living in Thunder Bay had his way, with his ego and helicopter knowledge, it is a wonder that he couldn't convince the government to buy Chinooks like the Air Force has, and bring a complete ER unit on board.

Granted the AW139 has a flat belly, but how are you going to get the powered stretcher on and off in the snow or tall grass??? 

I am not disagreeing with your analogy, but sitting on the snow without the wheels touching the ground, makes the helicopter insecure and the blades much closer to peoples head, totally unsafe.

The AW139's can be sold by the government and a Procurement Process initiated for the private Commercial Operators.

The H145 can replace both the AW139 (Orange) and Astars operated by Hydro and OMNR. These can be equipped for medical purposes and or utility purposes.

With the advent of the Pilot shortage, single pilot IFR is available with the Helionix autopilot system.

Long term contract can be negotiated to make it worthwhile for a commercial operator and the banks. 

Once the new assembly plant is built for the H145 in Kemptville and with the DND H145M order there will be plenty of spare parts to go around.

 

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The 145  429 and 135 are all too small to carry all the people and equipment and fuel for IFR with alternates. The S76 would work but I doubt if Ornge would go back to 76s although a new operator might. Many of the heliports are being designated as H1 so the helicopter must be capable of CAT A performance. The ambulance act requires 2 medics an if you have ever been to a bad motor accident 2 medics have their hands full. Nobody rolls stretchers through the snow or out of fields. The patient is usually placed on a scoop or backboard,carried to the helicopter and transferred on board. The aforementioned helicopters were all looked at a couple years ago and none could meet the requirements. I myself would love to go back to 76s and a real helicopter company ie. CHL and not this bloated beurocracy

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