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The original "ORANGE"?


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On 2/28/2019 at 5:53 AM, GrayHorizons said:

you can google the salaries and make the comparison yourself. I'm not your google *****.

The paramedics and the pilots, even some maintenance staff are well published across the country. You can see the disparity quite clearly for the same work. The manageers are even more top heavy than the most wasteful private sector company.

Its only my opinion, so you can have your own. You aren't going to change my mind easily nor am I going to change yours. 

A co-worker has informed me that actually,the pilots and the engineers salaries for Ornge are NOT well published across the country.

He would like to know where the information is.

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23 hours ago, robottxt said:

Now someone post HeliJets pay for air ambulances pilots!!!!!!

or STARs or Cougar or CHL or Phoenix or any on this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_ambulances_in_Canada

Most experienced commercial pilots would be upset with a lesser salary...

So as robottxt says "show me the money" - but no one will :D It will either show pilots are underpaid elsewhere or complete hipocrisy

Or as 18speed stated 'crewing is one of the biggest costs in any operation', especially a 24/7 IFR one

Plus the list linked is only for salaries over $100k, in line with public disclosure rules,  and not for all of the pilots/AMEs. And, as a side note, those salaries came from CHL....

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36 minutes ago, GrayHorizons said:

in 2016, the date of that document, you're saying those are CHL supplied numbers??? 


No, I think he means that CHL was already paying those rates and that those on the list went TO ornge with those salaries.  I believe the payscale did come from the original chl contract but would have hopefully been adjusted for inflation and whatnot.

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1 hour ago, GrayHorizons said:

in 2016, the date of that document, you're saying those are CHL supplied numbers??? 


Sorry for my bad phraseology Gray. I'm not sure if you work for CHL now and hence the confusion.

As heliian said: I'm saying those salaries listed in your link are merely a historical continuation of salaries originally paid by CHL. They were carried over by Ornge directly and haven't kept up with the CPI (cost of living) ever since.

Fact; in 2009 CHL paid Captains with an ATPL and IR up to $98k, FOs $67k, plus overtime and benefits.

In 2016 (your link) Ornge was paying $106 / 72k plus overtime. That's an increase of just 1.2% annually - Hardly spending gone mad!?

It just goes to show how much overtime Ornge pilots do to keep the sick people of Ontario safe.....so that is indeed what the private sector paid in the past and would have continued to pay if CHL had continued the contract - I presume (depending on contract negotiation, etc)?

Sorry for any confusion caused.

I guess the only thing that might stop the 'theoretical discussion'; is if another operator(s) publicly put forward a proposal to provide 24/7 IFR aircraft (FW and RW) with 2 pilots, 2 critical paramedics, engineers, support staff and infrastructure required to meet the logistical and transparent documentation required by the MOH to cover 1,000,000 km square and 40% of the Canadian population, many of whom don't even have road access.

It would appear nothing is easy, or cheap, in this industry. It's just that Ornge has to show where the money goes, unlike private for profit companies :)

If anyone out there would like a job with us: https://www.ornge.ca/careers  ;) 

Don't forget Ornge employees live in Ontario and so pay taxes, and spend their salaries in Ontario. If there was a AW139 & PC12 Class D sim in Ontario - all the money could stay here...

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Boy are we ever having fun, the whole story is totally out of context.

The only time any Canadian government should be taking work away from the private sector is when it's established that the private sector is unable to provide the service, after due diligence, on the part of the government procurement section,  having produced a statement of requirement issued by whatever department.

A request for proposal always (RFP) makes a requirement, competitive.

Government Departments have to be realistic in their statement of work and not asking for something that is unattainable, by the private sector.

My understanding of the procurement process for both the AW139 and the AS350 was sole-sourced to the manufacturers of said helicopters.

When you are dealing on a sole-source basis for a purchase of that magnitude, it invites corruption and has to be approved at the highest levels of government.

I personally prefer capitalism over socialism, it gives all parties a chance and saves the taxpayer money.

Just my two cents and however it goes, so be it.

My beef is not with individuals, it's with corrupt people in the government and taking taxpayers for a ride.

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12 hours ago, robottxt said:

Did CHL pay overtime?  Does any private company pay pilots overtime?  Raise your hand if you've been paid overtime!!!!!!! 

In accordance with the Canada Labour Code it’s illegal not to pay overtime. Most private operators do,pay overtime, but it’s based on an averaging agreement over 52 weeks. So an employee needs to be paid OT when he works more than 2080 hours in a year (minus vacation, stats etc).

Perhaps the question should be: Does ORNGE operate under an  averaging agreement similar to almost all private operators?

if they are paying huge amounts of OT, then I’d suggest that managent Is not managing as efficiently as they could be. This would hold true for any manager in any sector. Paying  OT regularly indicates the justification for additional Human Resources and the hiring of additional pilots.

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