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Definition Of "flight Time"?


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Duty hours in the trucking industry are currently at 13 hours per day, with a maximum of 8 consecutive hours of driving and a minimum of two hours rest. Truckers are also required to stop every two hours to take a short break and check their loads.

 

The industry wants to up this to 14 or 15 hours a day (can't remember the exact figure). The trucker's unions and independant broker associations are fighting to have their duty hours reduced to 12 per day.

 

In terms of fatigue, I would suspect the level of risk between trucker and helicopter drivers is similar. I'm not saying the job is similar, just the stress and fatigue (I've driven trucks, and driving a 40 ton truck in traffic can be quite stresseful and tiring).

 

What makes truckers different from us ? Numbers for one. And also, when a trucker has an accident, it usually has a lot of impact on others. We are a relatively small bunch, and when we go in, we usually have a lot of impact on the ground :mellow: ...

 

From talking to pilots here in LA, most companies here don't track pilot duty time at all. Most are either paid by the flight hour or fixed salary by the day, week or month, or some combination of these. A lot of pilots work 6 days a week, from 6 am to 9 pm, flying from 3 to 12 hours a day. Apparently the FAA doesn't do many inspections (according to those I spoke to) unless the company has a history of accidents. I'm talking about part 135 operators who aren't necessarily into Medevac or offshore...

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Sisyphus ------as you took the time to quote from my posting, I'm afraid that I have some corrections to make concerning your ASSUMPTIONS about my personal resume. I hold no position of managment in any company. I also have not worked for any large company for over a decade and when I did work for a large company, it was not a "central Canadian" firm.

 

I should also advise that what I posted was my OPINION and I was not speaking for, nor was asked to speak for any Ops Manager, CP, owner, pilot nor engineer. I trust that I am allowed my opinion and I trust that you are allowed to disagree with me. If you consider my ideas and opinions "Draconian", then you will also kindly note that I have mistletoe hanging from my coat tail.

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Firehawk

 

Basically, yes. If you are at the controls of a rotorcraft while the engine(s) are running then that time can be considered Flight Time......now I'm not suggesting a newbie who does a dozen ground runs a day over a summer should log every second at the controls, however, within reason that time does qualify.

With my last employer (vfr) the customer's bill would show the flight time......when the A/C first moves under it's own power and comes back to rest>>> that was flight time unless the customer agreed to multiple stops with the rotor turning then the time spent on the ground running was also considered in the flight time. For the longest time we would enter a flight time and a air time in the journey log........until someone asked how can flight time and air time be different in a skid type A/C? Therefore, we had to enterthe same time in the journey log.

With my present employer(ifr), flight time starts at the starter button and ends with the throttles off. The flight time is the figure used for Flight time /Duty time limitations and the air time is entered in the journey log. I knew of some guys working a 12 hr(flight day) job that would use air time for the above mentioned limitations ie; 12 hrs on flight report.......5.5 hrs(actual air time) would be used for FL/Du times. Ya gotta wonder, if you sit in the machine for 12 hrs but only fly it for 5.5 of those? Which would you use??

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AIP AIR 4.1 refers.

 

cheers

 

As swashplate stated and I assume everyone has an A.I.P.

 

There is a reason for stating the difference between "flight time" and "air time"

 

Flight time as defined goes in the pilots log book, i.e. experience.

 

Air Time as defined goes against the Total Time of the aitframe and all of it's components, including engine (s) and becomes the operating cost of that airframe.

That is also the time used by "most companies" to bill the client.

 

By the way this has been beaten to death, before.

 

Cheers, Don

 

PS: I do know of operators who beleive it is there God given right to charge flight time and is so written on there flight tickets, but put "airtime in the log books".

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Firehawk

 

Basically, yes. If you are at the controls of a rotorcraft while the engine(s) are running then that time can be considered Flight Time......now I'm not suggesting a newbie who does a dozen ground runs a day over a summer should log every second at the controls, however, within reason that time does qualify.

With my last employer (vfr) the customer's bill would show the flight time......when the A/C first moves under it's own power and comes back to rest>>> that was flight time unless the customer agreed to multiple stops with the rotor turning then the time spent on the ground running was also considered in the flight time. For the longest time we would enter a flight time and a air time in the journey log........until someone asked how can flight time and air time be different in a skid type A/C? Therefore, we had to enterthe same time in the journey log.

With my present employer(ifr), flight time starts at the starter button and ends with the throttles off. The flight time is the figure used for Flight time /Duty time limitations and the air time is entered in the journey log. I knew of some guys working a 12 hr(flight day) job that would use air time for the above mentioned limitations ie; 12 hrs on flight report.......5.5 hrs(actual air time) would be used for FL/Du times. Ya gotta wonder, if you sit in the machine for 12 hrs but only fly it for 5.5 of those? Which would you use??

 

 

I totally agree with your understanding of the definition. What I don't understand is that if these requirements are of the importance that TC potrays them as, then why don't they clarify their rules accordingly. Just to add fuel to the fire, why don't they allow resetting of the 30 day flight time limit (after 5 days off) for logging opps as they do for siesmic opps? I guess logging is much more stressful. Right!!!!!! ;)

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If the customer is asked wether or not the helicopter should be shutdown as he runs out to check something, and he claims he will only be a couple of minutes why should he not get charged for it?  Have you seen the price of fuel lately?  :blink:

 

Just curious, buy how do you factor in the cost of start cycles when billing the client ?

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