Definition Of "flight Time"?

[cap]

Sisyphus ------that's fine.....how much weight? Skids "clear of the ground", "light on the skids" or 50% perhaps? You give me a loaded 205 and normal fuel for that load and I'll sit there and make a Hobbs Meter run without taking-off and run that sucker outta fuel if you want, without ever leaving terre firma. I'm exactly opposite to you again my friend because if you pay me a straight salary, how am I going to fatten my wallet by doing so? I've arrived back home at my airport from being away and grabbed a cab home. Sometimes the taxi driver didn't know I was from this town and decided he was going to take me home the "scenic route" until I corrected him quickly.......and we all know why THAT game is played also. "Overtime? I seen enough of the local City employees and how they "play the game" with overtime, that that's a dangerous subject area to go into also for many. Design/draw-up whatever system you want and as long as MONEY is involved there will be those that develop a way to take advantage of it. Just don't go "painting" ALL operators with the same sh*tty brush nor ALL those employed by them.

[Blackmac]

" Pretty hard to ignore them when a lot of customers demand the Hobbs reading on each flight ticket! i.e. forestry "

 

Yes that is for sure an important consideration, especially when forestry is just crammed with some of the worlds deepest thinkers.  :up:

 

Rev.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Great minds think alike, I think.

 

Your comment beat me to it.

 

Did you ever get a round toit, we used to hand them out at Viking.

 

Are you in the running for Pope???

 

How's life in general, after the red light district.

 

Cheers, Don

[Blackmac]

Pretty hard to ignore them when a lot of customers demand the Hobbs reading on each flight ticket! i.e. forestry

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Should the Hobbs Meter be a requirement of forestry, do you actually kiss them while you are screwing them???

 

Kidding aside, I will put it this way. If you are using the Hobbs Meter to invoice said forestry unit are you also recording the same time as invoiced as "air time" in the aircraft log book??????

 

In case we have a misunderstanding the whole concept of recording times is strictly an honor system and always has been , and therefore there is no need for Hobbs Meters.

 

Honor amongst thieves.

 

Cheers, Don

[Charles W.]

Yeh, I have been outside working in the front yard and got to thinking about how many forestry management I could remember who were real intelligent hard workers... who you could depend on to keep things running productively.... note the word...productively...

 

....when I think of any I'll get back to you...

 

Maybe some of you out there can trigger my memory?

[Elvis]

In case we have a misunderstanding the whole concept of recording times is strictly an honor system and always has been , and therefore there is no need for Hobbs Meters.

 

Honor amongst thieves.

 

Cheers, Don

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wsa that not the reason that SEBJ required the Tachograph that monitored N1 speed for true billing.

 

:shock:

[Klipper]

I don't know about you but when I load up fire fighters from any pad they make I have the collective up enough to turn that hobbs. That includes when they jump out to count fuel, time is money.

[Klipper]

We have some jobs were we are hop from gas well to gas well the guy jumps out for 3 minutes changes a chart and gets back in. You try recording your time up and time down for 50 different stops. 1hour airtime 2.5 hours flight time. We are straight with our customers and let them know they are charged for flight time.

[Blackmac]

Having been an auditor for a good many years, one of the functions when visiting a company is go into the accounting department, get a bunch of invoices for whatever a/c and see if they coincide with the entries in the log book, not all of them do. The only thing we can do is have the invoice and the log book read the same. When there is a mistake the company normally has to increase the air time in the log book. For your further information the company always blames the error's on the pilot making the entries. Should we find that one of your clients has been overcharged as indicated by invoicing and actual airtime in the log books, that is of no concern to us. We are only concerned with the proper entries relating to actual air time.

 

Air time put against an airframe and it's components increases it's cost to the operator, this is offset by the revenue created by this a/c.

 

The hourly operating cost of the aircraft incorporating all the variables becomes the "Rate Per Hour" charged the end user.

 

The operator of said a/c must have more revenue flying than non revenue to be able to realize a profit as both costs are the same.

 

I hope this has given you a better understanding of cost related factors when operating any type of aircraft.

 

Any client department can demand anything some idiot can think of to record the time charged, that is part of de-regulation.

 

A client has more or all the say on how he will be charged and under what conditions. If an operator (s) except this type of intimidation, what can I say.

Supply and demand.

 

Prior to de-regulation there was a system set up (regulations) for both the operator and the client to abide by.

 

After de-regulation it was anybodies game. It so happened at the time that the whole industry went into a funk.

 

The end users saw that there was an oversupply of aircraft and took advantage of the opportunity to demand services at rediculous rates and guess who obliged, the operators.

 

To add to all this, de-regulation even allowed the local hot dog vendor to become a helicopter operator if he so desired.

 

In this day and age the end user is calling the shots and has absolutely nothing to do with common sence, only the bottom line.

 

Cheers, Don

[Firehawk]

Klipper

so by doing what you say, what are you writng in the log book? The same you charge your customer?

I have many hours flying in the patch,spent lots of time sitting on the ground running, 99% of the operators of the well sites themselves don't care but mention what your doing to their boss and I will beat he/she sees it in a different light.

If the heli-operator next door to you finds out what your doing, you will risk lossing your customers, The bottom line is the dollars.

Blackmac said it all in his statement.

[cap]

For starters, using the Hobbs Meter by forestry in Canada is an imported idea from the USFS, who have used the Hobbs Meter as "the Bible of truth" for eons and eons. At one time practically all of the USFS hierarchy was ex-US military and I can tell you from actual experience in that military that the Hobbs Meter was in American registered a/c long before it made it's way north as "the norm". The first ones even had a little "trick" wired into them.......pull them and the low N2 Horn would come on and it wouldn't shut off until you pushed the Hobbs Meter back in......it even did that if the a/c wasn't running. I and others on this side of the border have flown tens, if not hundreds, of a/c years ago that never ever were adorned with anything called a Hobbs Meter. It was as Blackmac stated......it was done on trust, some checking involved on occasion and an "honour system"......as "corny' as that might sound nowadays. Break that rule and you'd be "branded" for a long time and probably have to "kiss goodbye" to ever working for that client again.

 

Elvis......you are indeed correct about the reasons for SEBJ putting tachographs into all a/c EXCEPT the Allouette II.......and rightfully so. The reason for not putting them into Allouette II's was because it was impossible to do so. Again, that tachograph presented problems whenever an a/c was doing hydrology surveys and was making 150 -225 landings and T/O's each and every day. There were big fights over the differences in recorded times and the numerous "Starts" involved when the C-20 was limited to 3000 starts. As a result, it was agreed upon that the idling times would be charged and the numbers on any Hobbs Meter or tachograph were never the same again. I refused to "play that game of numbers" and left at that point for larger a/c. I had no intention of paying some penalty because of a minority of pilots who would land, tighten down the controls at idle, go have lunch for an hour, return to the a/c, "hot" refuel, take-off and charge all that whole bloody time to the Flight Ticket. There was "bags of flying year 'round for everybody, but you always have some who get greedy and then the "whispering campaign" starts about Flight times by all the rest. It got so bad that certain pilots wouldn't fly anything except an a/c on floats because it went that much slower and they could log a longer day on the Flight Tickets.......and DEMANDED that or they threatened to quit.