Skidz Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Hey ! Does that mean that during my flight training, when all my hours were billed according to flight time, I was getting screwed ? :shock: As far as I know, a contract between two parties where one party agrees to pay the other a certain amount per unit of a certain good or service will usually spell out the particular details of what that service is. If the contract spells out that the customer will be charged x per hour, and that time starts accumulating from engine start to engine shutdown, then that's the deal. Nobody's breaching a contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cap Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Kilipper ----- I agree, BUT as long as the customer is AWARE AND AGREES to same. If not......'it's a long alley without trash cans"......and sooner or later one will start to "burn bridges behind them". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehawk Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Blackmac, I agree with what you said, you took the words right out of my mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipper Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Hey ! Does that mean that during my flight training, when all my hours were billed according to flight time, I was getting screwed ? :shock: As far as I know, a contract between two parties where one party agrees to pay the other a certain amount per unit of a certain good or service will usually spell out the particular details of what that service is. If the contract spells out that the customer will be charged x per hour, and that time starts accumulating from engine start to engine shutdown, then that's the deal. Nobody's breaching a contract. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Skidz you were not getting screwed because you were paying for your flight time what you log in your log book. All the running on the ground was getting you experience. :up: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipper Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Kilipper ----- I agree, BUT as long as the customer is AWARE AND AGREES to same. If not......'it's a long alley without trash cans"......and sooner or later one will start to "burn bridges behind them". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ya well really there isn't to much work out there where this is a relevent topic. Chart changes is one of the places it is. other then that usually your airtime and flight time are pretty close to the same thing, I agree the customer has to be aware, just the same as he has to be aware if he is going to get charged 4 hour mins on a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elitheoneeyedtrousersnake Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Ya Klipper is right, given the options most companies doing chart changes would rather be billed flight time then have to pay mins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehawk Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 I'm not saying I disagree or say it is illegal with the way you want to do things, the problem I have is when you have 1.0 airtime and then charge your customer 1.5 hours flight time and log 1.0 hours in the log book. In my eyes the hourly rate you are charging your customer does'nt Jive. Instead of 800/hour JR 206 you are actually charging 1200/hour. Log what you charge. Thats my opinion anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cap Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 If the customer ends up paying as much as $3000/hr for a 206A and AGREES to that and is AWARE of that, then would some poor soul please explain to me where the "unethical" or "illegal" part is in that arrangement? One can question the intelligence of the customer if they so wish, but that is all. Perhaps some one is going to question that and say to their customer, "No sir, I'm afraid we can't do that because then you are giving us more money per hour than our tarriff rates are and we contracted with you for. I'm sorry, but we can't do that, so we'll have to reach another arrangment here. We'll either have to shut the a/c down each time or you'll have to cut-down on the numbers of landings". If it's a LEGAL agreement and understanding between the client and the supplier of those services AND if all the required LEGAL government documents are filled out and entered properly, then Jesus Christ himself couldn't find fault with that nor could ANY "ambulance chaser" haul my butt into any courtroom. When there is NO PRIOR AGREEMENT about same and the clock keeps ticking, is the point at which I say "whoa". IF there's STILL a problem with all the landings and T/O's then that then becomes a problem for my employer and the customer to sort out because I do not wish to be part of and will seldom be asked to be part of that debate. If I'm instructed by my employer to keep the clock ticking anyway, even though the customer isn't aware of it, then another problem has arisen........the company now has a pilot, who in polite terms, is saying "#### you!" My company does not make my reputation in this business......I do.....and I don't want that kind of rep. This latter part is nonsensical because the vast majority of the companies that I have worked for would not countenance nor suggest any such actions by me. I'm repeating myself at this point, so I'll retire from any further debate with no offense meant and none taken. Good debate by the way and I also appreciate and respect the opinions of those that did not agree with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehawk Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Cap reread my post I said nothing about being illegal I 'm stating my opinion and my opinion only. Yes I'm moving on also I think the point has been missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cap Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Firehawk -----no offense taken here and I was not addressing you as much as the subject at hand. Even with those of us that did not agree, I got the sense that there's still a large dose of honesty and principle left in this business of ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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