407 Or 119

[Phil Croucher]

I have flown the 407, and it's a nice ship (trying to get some here - make sure you get yours after ship 500). However, if the 119 shares anything with the 109, it will also be nice to fly, as it is a "honey" in the words of Shawn Coyle.

 

You need to look at other things than whether it's nice to fly, though, like support, and what you want to do with it. Take the trouble to find other people who operate it and ask the engineers.

 

Downwash - I hear you about Eurocopter support - you can be down for weeks while you wait for stuff to come back - they simply don't have the local guys that Bell has.

 

Phil

[Phil Croucher]

Yes, weeks - at least we're running F1s, so we can get the engines sorted - I'd hate to think what it would be like if we had to wait for those as well. We've got one down for a projected 6 weeks right now

 

Phil

[Phil Croucher]

There would appear to be no local Eurocopter shops in the same way that bell has - we're talking about Europe here. I'm still investigating, but our engineers hate them like poison

 

Phil

[Phil Croucher]

Yes, thinking ahead would be great, but I'm also run by accountants who can't (or won't) see the big picture, and who, believe it or not don't have a repair an replacement fund.

 

Phil

[helidude]

Here's a simple analysis of the problem:

 

Bell= Crappy helicopters, excellent service

 

Eurocopter= excellent helicopters, crappy service

 

Solution= Bell should start building eurocopter helicopters!!! :up: :up:

 

All kidding aside though, as much as I'm an Astar kinda guy, there are still serious issues that need to be improved by Eurocopter.

Anyone else have any problems with engine oil pressure transducers?????? I've gone through over a dozen in the last 12 months. The tech reps in Fort Erie are sympathetic to our problem but they say that France doesn't think it's a serious enough problem to do anything about, at least not yet.

 

And no, it's not an airframe problem since both our Astars have the same issue. The longest time we've had one of those transmitters last was 67 hours. The average is 25 hrs.

I'm about ready to try to involve Transport Canada to see if they can get Eurocopter to get off their *ss and look after their customers!!!

[Phil Croucher]

While you're at it, see if you can get something done about the manual!

 

phil

[vortex]

Hey helidude, just submit an SDR for each of those transmitter issues and TC will apply some pressure to Eurocopter to fix their "excellent helicopters". FYI - I've never changed a dozen of anything in a year on any of those "crappy helicopters". :up:

[Skids Up]

now that opens up possibly a whole new thread. Would local shops be the best thing? In Canada we have two, Us and ACRO that look after the serviceing across canada. Would more improve the situation, or create a hotbed for unapproved parts and repairs?

 

Is this not the service centre approach that seems to work for Bell? Seem that for 2 places to look after all of Canada could be a tad much... :shock:

 

This wouldn't necessarly mean that bogus parts would flood the market would it? Or that any ole repair could be done?

 

Class, can we spell "Monopoly"? :down:

 

PS: before we fire at will, please note I have no dealings with or about Eurocopter and know nothing about the way things are done there. Just asking....

[Phil Croucher]

The people we choose to do work when we can escape from Eurocopter have done extremely good work, and have been very honurable. It's up to Eurocopter to ensure that whover they sub out to is up to scratch. Personally, I find it disgraceful that I get a better manual with my Mac than I do with a $2m helicopter, and that goes for them all.

 

Phil

[Skids Up]

how is eurocopter supposed to stop anyone who isn't up to snuff? As long as the regulating body hands out AMO status, it's out of their hands. How these guys I refered to earlier, can pull of using an unapproved jig is a guess to me.

 

You as an operator are supposed to ensure your parts and repairs come from an approved source.

 

Can you blame a company for wanting to control its product to some extent?

There are few companies currently trying to get overhaul status right now in Canada. All the power to them if they want to take on the responsibility and liability of doing their own work. Overhauling components is not a task to be taken lightly. 

 

Mags,

 

Sorry to be so dense, but how does Bell (just for an example) do it? An AMO isn't a licence to make parts, manufactor jigs, and do unapproved repairs.

 

I was at Chinnook Avaition (Springbank Airport) a couple of years ago and they had a team there (from Bell I think), measuring and checking their jigs. It was so sensitive that you couldn't even open the hangar doors cause that would cause a change in the jigs, and the measured tolerances that were required. And they had to be recertified I believe on a regular basis, and if they were moved... (A bit fuzzy on this but I think that was the way it was)

 

It would seem that if Eurocopter would specify the companies the are a "qualified service center," it would pretty well remove the others from the herd. If an operator knew that his machine wasn't or couldn't be "certified" by an approved center, would he take it there to be fixed?

 

Wouldn't the same hold true for componets? Componets have been ovehauled since they have been on helicopters. What makes Eurocopter componets different from those?

 

If a shop is not using "approved jigs, and overhaul procdures", it should be pretty easy for TC to pull the AMO. They seem to do it for less than that on occasion.