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The FM limitations are not suggestions. The fact it is a limitation in the flight manual is a very valid reason not to do it.

Intelligent questions as to why they exist are welcomed and should be encouraged.

Part of any good ground school should cover the reasons behind the limit.

You would not, for instance, knowingly fly over the gross weight limit would you?

For instance why is there a lower gross wieght limit internal and higher one for external loads?

The IAS limit/vs/torque is a relatively new limitation in 206 / 212 ( Late 80's early 90's I recall.

If the flight manual had to explain the reason behind every limit the darn thing would wiegh about 200 lbs.

One thing I always covered in my ground schools were the special inspections in the Maint manual for overtorque, overspeed, hard landing ect. Quite an eyeopener for some.

Some people use transient torque limits when slinging. Use of these limits is not recommended as if You misjudge things you will find yourself overtorque big time - aside from which most of the extra torque is going to the tail rotor and yoiu are getting yourself really near loss of tail rotor authority and if you are pulling transients you are overgross for the enviroment you are in.

Besides which: Be nice to your a/c and it will be nice to you. Mistreat it and it will eventually turn around and bite you or your replacement in a very sensitive area.

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Some people use transient torque limits when slinging. Use of these limits is not recommended as if You misjudge things you will find yourself overtorque big time - aside from which most of the extra torque is going to the tail rotor and yoiu are getting yourself really near loss of tail rotor authority and if you are pulling transients you are overgross for the enviroment you are in.
Sharkbait,

 

Well said.

 

Plus when you always make a habit of pulling max or transient limits, you will find that you have to pull "just a bit more" to get the load off that you could pull yesterday. :down: :down: :stupid:

 

Then how do you feel when you know you have pulled to the limit, "plus a tad...." and then the next guy comes along and pull a bigger load?? :shock:

 

Mistreat it and it will eventually turn around and bite you or your replacement in a very sensitive area.

 

Plus it really sucks when the guy before you abused it, and it bites you....

 

Most limitations in the 206 are about the most it will do. If you can't do the job without exceeding them, you have the wrong aircraft. B)

 

 

Read the flight manual, know the limitations, and don't second guess the people at Bell. They get paid big bucks to make sure it flies like it is suppose to, not like we think it should. :oops:

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Thanks Cap for "the Tuck factor" ! Never heard about this before, but logical.

 

sometimes my lack of knowledge give me creeps...it's like with the LTE : I heard about this 1 year after my first job and understood it after reading "vertical" :(

but that's why I'm here : to understand the "why". Too many important things are well explain in accident report; ex : this amazing book "fatals traps".

 

If the flight manual had to explain the reason behind every limit the darn thing would wiegh about 200 lbs

 

Right, so instead of complaining to Bell, I'm here :P

 

So, ohhhhhh ooooooooold pilooooots......share the knowledge with us poor little beetles

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Nick - well done for asking - better to ask before than to ask afterwards and look even more foolish! The reason for the speed limit between 85-100% is for "mast stress bending", where the fuselage is in an attitude that the mast does not like.

 

With reference to LTE and similar conditions, gentle handling helps. If you move the controls abruptly, for example, the induced flow takes a moment or two to get going and you get all the drag without the lift. Handle them s-m-o-o-t-h-l-y on the other hand, you give the airflow a chance, and that includes the tail rotor.

 

The engine is derated to better match it against the transmission at higher altitudes - if they were matched at ground level, you would have more of an altitude limitation.

 

Last point - would you run your car at 100% all the time? Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Helicopter rates are expensive enough as it is, and if you wear the machine out quicker, the maintenance bills get higher at the end of the year, and you make it that little bit less likely your company will survive.

Technically, pulling a 5-minute limit for 5 minutes, then reducing power and pulling it again is legal, but it's not sensible. The manufacturer designed such limits for occasional use only.

 

Sharkbait - the reason for the difference in weights is partly the landing gear and what would happen in an engine off, and the capabilities of the tail rotor - the 3350 external load limit is only valid if the load is hooked on while the machine is airborne. The new upgrade for an internal 3350 lbs weight requires the 65" tail rotor (and a placard or two).

 

Phil

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Nick -------I'm afraid that I can say exactly the same as you, but not to the same extent maybe.......my lack of knowledge also sometimes gives me "the creeps". Unfortunately, I'm not a "born" pilot , but a "made" one........my mother was the "born" pilot. I still retain the ability though, to recognize a "born" pilot when I see one and they come in a wide range of experience levels, from 1000 hrs - 25,000 hrs. So if you are still learning, join the crowd because I'm in there with a whole slew of others.

 

Sharbait ---------experiencing the "Huey tuck", as it's called, is an unforgettable experience similar to "collective bounch". It's not just the roof of the a/c that comes into play, but the blade tip speed and angle of pitch at that moment. That was ONE of the reason for putting "a sweep" into the blade tips because it apparently "fools" the blade tip into thinking that it isn't going that fast. Once experienced, it sometimes requires anything up to a week for the anal orifice to become un-puckered. I encountered mine during a combat situation, but it's a area of flight that I "don't go" anymore as a result. It always bothers me though, that it's something that could be demonstrated (at height) to new pilots on type, but I've never heard of it happening yet.

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Great questions Nick. Like the others said it's not a stupid question unless asked after you try finding out the hard way. It's unfortunate that there are still pilots out there who violate limits everyday (though none post here I'm sure).

Thankfully there is software out there installed in many machines that record everything the pilot does, and if he/she exceed limits on a regular basis the boss will be the 1st to know. Hopefully this will lessen the chance of you flying a machine that was last jockeyed by a "cowboy" without it being checked by an AME and the cowboy sent packing.

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Ok very good I always thought that the VNE was due to the retreating blade only. Again I learned something :P

 

But I have another question about the FM : was is this chart named "Altitude vs Gross weight Limits for height velocity diagram" (section3) ?

 

For those without the FM, it's a graphic with gross weight in X and density altitude in Y. A curve named "altitude Limit" start from 2500 pnd/12000 ft until 3000 pnd/1750 ft then it's flat at 1750 ft for GW from 3000 to 3200 pnd. clear ? :lol:

 

I'm also looking for the "product data" book from Bell. But don't ask for a "Bell price" :lol:

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