Passenger In The Front With Duals Installed

[HBG]

In the past its been a bit of a gray area, but recently in the past year our company was granted permission to fly passengers from the left seat. I believe VIH also has it written in there ops manual. Personally spending 99% of the time in the left seat moving drills and then having to jump over to the right side to move a full crew of 14 drillers in or out of a tight pad is crazy. I would rather stay in the left seat than have a 200+lbs driller trying to maneuver over the left hand collective control while you are holding power on a crappy pad. Besides one usually picks the co-coordinator to ride up front for he is usually the most competent one. Just my opinion.

[twinstar_ca]

i just watched that too... that was C-GREL.. the driver was flying from the left, i presume for better long line vision...

 

but there's a big difference between an experienced non-rated person in the front as opposed to the one who's experiencing their 1st ride...

 

i'd like to think that i know better than to be touching anything... arms crossed and feet off the pedals...

[Skids Up]

Skidz,

 

Installing and removing duals in most machines only takes a couple minutes. Doing the $%?ing log entry is the longest part...

 

You've not been around when duals are being installed or removed in a medium I take it.

 

It's a bit more than a couple of minutes and after you ask your wrench to do it a few times a day, you won't be very popular... :down: :down:

 

Having the passenger in the right seat makes sense - at least he's not climbing over the collective and normally you are more comfortable in the left seat as HBG said.

[Blackmac]

I would be more concerned with the medical condition of the person sitting behind the controls, people do have heart attacks and it has happened and controls get interferred with.

 

From a risk management point of vue I would never let a passenger sit at the controls.

 

Cheers, Don

[Rotorboy2]

Legal or not, it does happen... especially on fires. I've seen lots of mediums doing crew moves with the left front pax in there with the duals.

[skullcap]

There is no legal requirement to remove the duals for passengers, as long as it is explained that there will be no instruction given.

 

More importantly than people getting all tripped up in the duals is the friggin seatbelt getting caught!!!! Jeez, wakeup, how many mediums have been lost due to this action and mostly from the crew leaving the seatbelt loose themselves. Our passengers are usually better at putting the belt back than pilots or engineers.

 

Let us not get lathered up about something that is commmon sense, but maintain a positive look at the existing operations. I for one have no problem allowing the properly briefed passenger SIT in a seat which has dual controls. It is a ridiculous attitude which is common in ontario whereas you must remove your dual controls prior to allowing the JAFO sit in the front to SHOW you where to bucket. Have had no issues with them other than perhaps when they fall asleep halfway thru the fuel cycle perhaps they'd grab the cyclic in their dreams.

 

Now if we want to go on about pax getting some dual time from a non instructor,,,,fill your boots.

 

sc

[Iceman]

This comes out of our company Op's manual:

 

"No person other than company approved aircrew (Pilot or Engineer) occupies a seat equipped with flight controls when dual controls are installed"

 

Not a bad policy.

[Skids Up]

  This comes out of our company Op's manual:

 

"No person other than company approved aircrew (Pilot or Engineer) occupies a seat equipped with flight controls when dual controls are installed"

 

Not a bad policy.

It should be a properly briefed passenger, IA boss, crew leader, or a person that the pilot deems responsibile. After all, he is the man in charge.

 

How many helicopters have been wrecked by passengers having a heart attack?

How many have been wrecked by passengers grabbing the controls away from the PIC?

 

how many mediums have been lost due to this action and mostly from the crew leaving the seatbelt loose themselves

 

How many?

 

Cockpit procedures should take care of this, do we really think it will change with lines of type in the ops manual?

 

Ops manuals rule, but sometmes not with the best of results.

 

How about the ops manual stating that no one but licenced pilots behind the controls? ? :shock:

 

Try explaining that to your main wrench.

[skullcap]

Skids up;

 

More than one and less than a thousand, and many more with just stains for evidence after. Very prone for medium bells.

 

 

I was trying to point out that it is not usually the passenger but crew causing the problems with duals in a/c, procedures can prevent it, but alas it still happens, obviously there are still pilots oblivious to the problem or we wouldn't be discussing it huh?

 

Let us not take the shotgun approach and ban duals altogether but use existing common sense.

 

sc

[cap]

I've flown F/W and especially the Otter with a "swamper" in the other seat with the controls in front of him and did it for many miles and hours. I've also flown R/W with my engineer occupying the other seat and the controls in place in front of him. I've also travelled many a mile with other types of passengers in the same position and the controls in place also. In all cases, the aforementioned had no licenses to fly anything. Normal instructions were given about not touching anything to those considered in need of that instruction. To do otherwise in MY cockpit did/will prove to be injurious to your personal health because in THAT one particular location I am the "king of all I survey" until that a/c returns to mother earth.....and the bung wrench under my seat is a most wonderful "attitude adjuster".