Immigration

[twotter]

I''ve been discussing this on another forum and would like your input....

 

How do you feel about our government allowing pilots to immigrate to Canada when we don''t have enough jobs for the pilots that already live here??

[Panama Jack]

There are two separate issues that bother me regarding the immigration of pilots.

 

First of all, is that many countries prohibit foreign citizens from holding their professional licenses. For example, even though you may be a permanent resident of another country (an immigration matter) and can live and work there, the civil aviation folks say that you cannot hold a Commercial license or higher because you are not a citizen. Mexico is one fine example of this situation. I would like Transport Canada and the FAA to adopt a principle of reciprocity. In other words, a foreigner is unable to hold a Canadian or US license, unless a Canadian can hold the same grade of license in that foreigner''s country.

 

Second, I agree that we should not be permitting foreigners to apply for residency (on the basis of professional qualifications) given that there is no shortage of qualified pilots in this country. This is, of course, the status quo in the US. Naturally, family ties are an entirely different matter.

 

 

[Seiger]

I called my MP a couple years ago about this and he never got back to me. The Canadian government only cares about getting more tax payers so they can waste more money. This makes me so mad! The only employment that I could find flying, essentially paid less then minimum wage (with all the free overtime). I''ve had to stop flying to sell computers. People keep saying to me "You make more money selling computers then you would flying an airplane", It baffles me too! I think the two worst problems in the aviation industry is pilots prostituting themselves and Immigrants stealing our jobs!! I wish we were more like the Americans in regards to immigration policy.

[frog]

I arrived as an immigrant in 1999, I obtained my instructor rating shortly after. A couple weeks after I obtained my class 4 a nearby school started to look for an instructor. And guess what, no Canadian wanted to takethe job because it was not good enough for them, the pay was not too good, but they were still offering a pay !

So sorry if I accepted the job, sorry that I stole a job ! Today I have a job !

[inverter]

here we go again

[kino]

twotter and panama jack, my 2 cents here... You are opening a can of worms which could apply to all professions. Pilot jobs must always go on merit and qualification, not on "hey I was born here, dah...". This also apply to jobs everywhere - and on this, I hate QUOTAS established by organizations, to get a set % of women, visible minorities, disabled people, bilingual people and the like. Jobs should always go on MERIT.

 

Secondly, I dont agree with the reciprocity argument either. If an immigrant comes here and his training, qualification and experience can entitle him or her to an ATR (with equivalency exams and flight test) - the more power to them. Because in their backwood country they dont allow it, we shouldn''t be boneheads about it and do the same...

 

Canada is a country of equal opportunity, and if Chungh Chiong SherKjan happens to get a job before you, it has to be because he earned it, and he''s fully qualified for it. Because he was born is some island across the world makes no difference.

 

Now the only point I will defer to your argument, is that if the government shortcuts immigration redtape for qualified foreign pilots on the basis of a pilot shortage here (like they do for nurses in the USA and other jobs), then you may have a point. However, we should be presented with actual data that proves that there is an actual shortage here, which as you said, is doubtful. I''d like to have a link to information on such an immigration policy for foreign pilots, if indeed it exists.

 

 

[Seiger]

Frog, your telling me that in Canada there was a pilot job that didn''t pay well and a Canadian pilot (s) didn''t want it. I don''t believe you!

What really pisses me off is when Pilots from other countries get an airline job fairly easy and come to Canada after accumulating 5 grand and then look for a job. I did my INRAT with Aerocourse back in 99'' and there was a German guy there with a type rating on a 737. He got hired with a German airline with 250 hours. He more then likely passed the exams and hooked a job here in Canada. Even if he didn''t get a job someone like him did. Does this sound fair?

[cap]

Also, keep in mind guys that when they were negotiating NAFTA the aviation reps for Canada were ''asleep at the wheel'' and that''s why we weren''t included as a profession. They''ve been trying to change it since, but I''m afraid that we''re closing the door after the **** horse left the barn. The governments (US & Canadian) didn''t ''screw us'' on that one, so we can''t blame either. This ain''t no rumour either....it''s plain fact. Maybe if HAC would have been around things would have turned out different. ATAC must have been in the ''men''s room'' or stayed at home.

[Atlantis]

 

Well I''m not familiar with the details of the Canadian immigration policy for pilots (I guess Transport Canada along with the government would be responsible for that) but can''t Canadians convert their licenses and work in Europe for example? I''ve spoken to a few Canadian pilots and they seemed to think Europe was heaven for pilots. Lots of airlines, etc... Of course they forgot it''s a 350 million people market with lots and lots of pilots. The reason why some low time pilots get jobs with airlines in Europe is mainly because they were trained by them. Either in their own academies or in flight school''s with which airlines have agreements to recruit the best pilots whenever they need to (Oxford Aviation in the UK is a good example). Some airlines, and it''s yet to be proven that they''re wrong, rather have low time pilots flying rigth seats than experienced pilots since they can train them in an airline manner. I hope you know what I mean...

By the way, the European market is open and you get pilots from Scandinavia flying in Italy or Spain and vice-versa. The same applies for training. No conversions needed between JAA member states, meaning training in Greece or Portugal will get you a job in Belgium. Why not walk towards one common worldwide market and rules?

 

My 2 cents...

[Atlantis]

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On 3/13/2003 11:17:23 AM Randy_G wrote:

 

And if it''s heaven over there, why are there so many Europeans looking to come to Canada to fly ??

 

Cheers

 

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I meant that Europe IS NOT heaven.

"I''ve spoken to a few Canadian pilots and they seemed to think Europe was heaven for pilots. Lots of airlines, etc... Of course they forgot it''s a 350 million people market with lots and lots of pilots."

That''s what I said. It''s a huge market with a lot of jobs flying but also a lot of pcompetition. It IS very hard to land a job in Europe.

Concerning the European airline academies, they do get you a job with low flying time but, as you can imagine, they''re very hard to get into. The training is funded by the airline so I''d guess EVERYONE has a go at them before paying for their training in some flight school. Oxford Training asks for £60,000... other places around €50,000. That''s a lot of money.

I''d say the States are the best place to find a job flying but of course the mighty "Green Card" is a must.