Immigration

[Randy_G]

Atlantis, Europe has made it a lot easier to cross borders and work, if you''re European. If you have the right to work in a European country, then yes you can go and try to get a job. You still have to get past the immigration department of the country you wish to work in. You then must get the JAA license. And that''s not cheap. And if it''s heaven over there, why are there so many Europeans looking to come to Canada to fly ??

 

Cheers

[Atlantis]

PS: A European pilot wanting to work in Canada would also have to convert his JAA license right?

[RotorPilot]

 

twotter

 

I really like your rant but this time this topic is hardly acceptable. If you are not 100 per cent Indian you are either an immigrant, a son, grand son, great grand son of one... I guess the first member from your family that came to Canada did have some good reasons. Nice they let him in, otherwise we would miss your posts

 

PanamaJack

In Toronto you can find taxi drivers with University Diplomas almost of any kind we can think of.

If a direct and immediately availability of jobs was a pre-requirement, than only brick layers, cement finishers, carpenters, and so on would come in... Not the ideal thing huh ?

BTW Einstein was an Immigrant and a refugee...  and yes he taught a thing or two to the Americans

 

Anyone can go to Europe and take a CPL. To work there you must either be the citizen of one of the 15 countries (27 next year) or apply for a work permit.

 

Any pilot from any European country, as well as helicopters regardless of country of registration can work anywhere in Europe.

 

 

Seiger

 

The problem of low pay is not a direct consequence of immigration. Try to use your brain and see what is YOUR part in the situation and WHAT have YOU done to minimize it...

 

Your MP never return your call and for good reasons, I am sure.

 

 

Lots of European Aviation companies do have AB-INITIO programs hiring WOULD BE pilots with 0 hrs and 0 training but because they MUST do so due to contract negotiations.

When Air Forces don't have the needed output of pilots, something must be done to assure, yes, an oversupply of pilots.

 

 

kino

 

That's what the government does in immigration. MERIT (or point system as they say).

 

 

 

Atlantis

 

When the JAA was just a dream, they had several meetings with the FAA to try to find common regulations and licences that would be valid in the EU and US !!!

 

The FAA tried to IMPOSE their point of view on the EU negotiators and they left the negotiations and went on their own.

Yes the right thing to do was a common licence with common rules and local legislation. All it would require to convert would be what is called PStar exam. That didn't happen because of the FAA posture. Next year with 27 countries and 450 million people it will be a lot more difficult to do changes.

 

 

[RotorPilot]

Atlantis

Yes JAA licences must be converted to TC prior to fly here.

 

Forgot to comment on your price quote. There are several reasons why its a lot more expensive in Europe. Fuel is the first one. It costs more then twice. After this most of the aircraft are cessnas made in USA with heavy import duties for planes and parts. Third salaries and cost of living are higther there too. All together and you have the reason.

 

Some countries have what they call VALIDATION of foreign licences. Just with a simple exam on regulations they give yoiu a JAA licence valid for one year to give you time (and money) to go after whatever else you might need.

I don't know if this is local or JAA regulations.

 

Number1

 

So you decided yourself to initiate your posting here with this thread. Nice post to start. Keep it going... Pilots shouldn't be forced to have roots

[Number1]

Visit any of the worldwide aviation sites and you will find a discussion on ''non-nationals taking our jobs'' or ''flagging out''. Aussies coming here, Brits going to New Zealand, Canadians going South, the Brits seem especially ticked off with all those Continentals and Yanks flocking to take their jobs. But there are still more threads on getting work overseas than ones like this.

 

Granted, many expats are flying in countries where there is a shortage of nationals, but regarding the rest of the expats, the ''problem'' is worldwide and not specific to Canada. Pilots of all nationalities, more than any other professionals seem to migrate with ease.

If a person achieves the right to live and work in any country, they have all the right in the world (!) to work there as a pilot if someone wants to and can legally hire them, no question. Immigration laws in Canada are, yes, different but not necessarily less stringent than in the UK, NZ or others. It still takes sometimes years to receive permanent resident status here. International reciprocity would be nice, but is impossible. To the best of my knowledge, residency is not granted to pilots based on profession anymore, although it surely was in the eighties.

 

I have been a foreigner and a expat pilot in a few different countries (including Canada) and while I can somehow understand the frustration of being snubbed for the ''bloody foreigner'', I am tired of this foreigner bashing, anywhere.

I was pissed off when they hired that idiot instead of me, though....but then again, idiot bashing is OK

[Atlantis]

I guess fuel price is important. I still remember the days when you could get an ab-initio Frozen ATPL for €30,000. Now it''s over €50,000. And I''m not that old!...

 

Hey, here''s a question for everyone. If you could pick a license to have and a permit to work anywhere, which one would you pick? honesty...

 

[Daniel]

I am English, with myy Canadian Licenses. I will eventually imigrate to Canada as a pilot and maybe a second job. I have family so I can come in. I am not only moving to Canada within 3 years for flying. I love the country. I cannot say one thing about. Dont take your wonderful country for granted.

 

I know you may complain about it, but it you even start comparing it to England, then after about 5 minutes you will be glad to be Canadian I tell you. I have done lots of reading about the two countries, and I live in one of them!

 

I am allowed to use my PPL from Canada in the UK. I will be allowed to use my CPL in the UK. I will not be allowed to fly abroad with either. I will not have to convert to JAA/JAR as I do not wish to enter pilot employment in this country.

 

I shall start it in Canada.

 

Hope this helps...

 

Smoth skies,

 

Dan

[Panama Jack]

Ohhhh boy. I can see that some folks see me wearing white sheets and burning crosses.

 

Rotorpilot wrote:

 

"In Toronto you can find taxi drivers with University Diplomas almost of any kind we can think of.

If a direct and immediately availability of jobs was a pre-requirement, than only brick layers, cement finishers, carpenters, and so on would come in... Not the ideal thing huh ?

BTW Einstein was an Immigrant and a refugee... and yes he taught a thing or two to the Americans"

 

So what is your point? We already have lots of underemployed flight instructors, airline pilots, bush pilots, etc. if your zeal is to "be taught a thing or two".

 

To set the record straight, I am neither a racist nor anti-immigration. In fact, my wife is a non-white immigrant and I have lived and flown in a number of other countries.

 

"Oh boy", you say. "What a hypocrite you are Panama Jack."

 

Not quite. In my wife''s home country I hold permanent resident status. I can live, work, and pay taxes there (just like Canada). I even have a University Degree and can drive a taxi there if I wanted to-- wooo hoooo!!!

 

What I cannot do, however, is hold a Commercial or ATP license. Why? Because the civil aviation regulations state that I must be a CITIZEN of that country to be able to participate in aviation. This was a rule written by the last dictator (back in the 1950''s) in an effort to keep the foreigners out and keep the (then) lucrative flying jobs for pilots coming out of the armed forces.

 

The situation of the country has diminished greatly in the last 30 years. Given the fact that it now happens to be a country with a basket-case economy (and sinking further), I am unwilling to renounce my Canadian citizenship. A few years ago they issued me a 1-year validation certificate and the local pilot community jumped down Civil Aviation''s throat, with some nastiness. Later, I worked there on an FAA license flying a diplomatic N-registered aircraft, again the same lobbying from pilots (less successful though-- hard to touch diplomatic stuff).

 

After that, I was on a diplomatic visa again flying in another country on behalf of a foreign government. I have the destinction of, not only being accused of stealing jobs and violating the civil aviation regulations by simply flying an aircraft there, but indeed, of violating the Constitution of the country!!! I even made it into the newspaper!

 

To this day I cannot fly for an airline in my wife''s country-- not because I am blackballed (always a posibility though) but because I cannot even get a license. Never mind that many of the pilots there have FAA licenses also.

 

My wish, in having TC and FAA work on the principle of reciprocity is to have other countries adjust their rules. Imagine, if pilots in other countries found that their FAA certificates could be suspended, I am sure that they would talk to their Civil Aviation Authorities to change this.

[Winnie]

Here is my crowns worth:

I happen to be from Norway, and I came to this great country of yours to find gainful employment.

I''m sure I''m not as devoted to your country as you are, but I resent the idea that I acme here to ''take away jobs'' from any Canadian. I am currently the CFI of a school in eastern Canada, and not a single Canadian applicant came up when they applied for it. (Perhaps untrue, since there were a few, but their monitary demands were should we say a smidge higher than what I dreamt of asking). Now I don''t mean to say you should not have a choice to throw me out if you don''t want me here, but atleast I''m producing new pilots to come out into your market, when there is room for them. And also, I bet that the next person to take this Job won''t be Canadian either, because the pay sucks, and who are willing to get 250hours of PIC in a helicopter only to get a Class 4, and work for practically nothing?

I think this country is perhaps one of the greatest to live in, in someways even better than my own (Prices and taxes) but, when my time is up, I''ll move on, and then some Canadian can come here and take my Job.

 

Anybody interested?

Give me a PM and I''ll get in touch

[Number1]

Twotter

 

I just read your post again and am wondering, since you started this...how do YOU feel about it?