Fligh Manual Limitations

[WTF_was_that]

the lost limitations.

 

-Bell 206 bubble windows 110mph VNE

-Astar pocket door and seat cushion removal. with forward door off

-Quick release pins in the doors.

-Duck tapeing ever concievable thing possible to the skid. Not sure what transport thinks of that

-The old 206 over torque, everyone will give a different answer.

-That density ALT to VNE chart that so nicely hold's sunglasse, GPS.

 

Everyone knows that exceeding a limitian and damaging a A/C will void the C of A and hence void the insurance.

 

What are your feeling on the the above mentioned.

[RDM]

Bell 206 bubble windows 110mph VNE

 

There was a limit on the bubble, next thing you are going to say is there is a VNE with a external load, sheesh!

 

Astar pocket door and seat cushion removal. with forward door off

 

They would depart rather quickly, found it best usually just to place some heavy unsecured cargo on them, usually full gas cans or wet car batteries

 

Quick release pins in the door

 

Darn things, usually ended up misplacing one after three or four hours of bucketing, then would have to use a small nail to hold the door on for the trip back to base

 

Duck tapeing ever concievable thing possible to the skid. Not sure what transport thinks of that

 

We asked transport, was a problem in the mid 80's but Transport has got that newly approved Duck Tape, now, so no more 3M stuff, ok. :hide:

 

 

The old 206 over torque, everyone will give a different answer

 

Can you explain this term "over torque"....? Anyone?

 

 

That density ALT to VNE chart.

 

Come on now, everyone knows that this is only a guideline

[RDM]

On a serious note there WTF, good points.

 

All things that sometimes get forgotten, but remember it is YOUR licence! Not the customers, not the owners, but YOURS!

[GoldMember]

WTF,

 

Just checked my flight manual and found no reference to a Vne for my bubble windows - maybe there is a limit for certain types? Also could not find a yay/nay for quick release pins, although I know TC and the DOM would not be very happy to see them in use.

 

Limits are there for a reason, don't exceed them and you and your aircraft will live a long and happy life. Also, if a limit is exceeded and an incident/accident occurs that results in an injury or death I'm pretty sure that the lawyer representing the injured party would not have too much of a problem nailing the *** of the pilot-in-command to the proverbial wall.

 

We all have made errors in judgement with respect to the rules governing aviation (myself included), the key, I think, is to learn from your errors when they occur and show that you've become a better pilot/engineer by not repeating the same mistake twice. To those of us that seem bent on destruction (1150 pound drill at 5,000 feet in August with a 206 that has a BEW of about 1850 pounds), well, it's your ***.

[Helilog56]

Limitations are just that!....Simple enough right? ......"NOT"! The complexity and demands on pilots and aircraft are ever increasing, that combined with an extremely competetive industry and you have a formula to work an aircraft beyond it's design capabilities.

Oh yea....I almost forgot the most important part of that formula....."pilot ego" :shock: You know," that", which drives some to prove that they can get the job done faster than the others, lift more that the others, etc.

Pilots that try to get the job done at the expense of the aircraft are foolhardy and dangerous.....there is a big difference between intentional abuse and just an honest mistake.

Granted, the aircraft may not know the difference between those two.....but usually the frequency is........ :down:

[cap]

MoT and Bell remind me of our female gender along about the 28th day of each month........"NO!" it's not legal.......well we are performing tests.......well under certain circumstance.........yeah, it's okay now under all circumstances.........and eons later it becomes time to "pass the buck" on who was responsible for all those decisions in the first place and the insurance companies usually loose out in that "Blame" department. If you live and fly long enough you end up shaking your head like you have a bad case of Parkinson's disease.

 

1) Bubble window on 206's-------highly illegal, not approved and we will slap your "pee, pee" very hard if caught doing so.

 

2) Quick release pins on doors ----- have been used since at least 1968, approved or not approved, is common practice and MoT knows it because most of their members have done exactly that while in the private sector.

 

3) Duck taping objects to skids-------refer to #2 and the US Army who developed it in conjunction with 3M and it was in existance for almost 10 years before the public got their hands on it. Further reference to Red Green also.

 

4) Old 206 "over torque" for C-18 was NEVER published in any manual that pilot's could lay their hands on and remained staunchly at 100%. The word "Transient" did not exist. IN REALITY, there was an over-torque limit of 105%, BUT that limit was unspoken and remained in a large red book within the confines of the DOM's office where it deserved and should have remained. The C-20 came out and we moved into the realm of the word "Transient" and that's the worse thing Bell ever published in a FM because it now became the new "norm" for many a pilot......and MoT and everyone else knows that also.

 

5)Density ALT to VNE chart.........pick an altitude high enough and try it out. Maybe it's all B.S., but be prepared for "unusual events" to occur and remember it was put there for a reason by people with higher foreheads than most of us. Other than that, it falls into the same category as "not to exceed 10 seconds during transient over-torque"......one thousand and one, one thousand and two, one thousand and three......ahhhhh, I guess I better start to lower the collective soon.

 

I'll add a #6 also.......no Fuel Boost pumps to push-in or activate...... then one..... then two (with a provision that one MUST be used to start)............AND THEN BOTH MUST be used to start . My math tells me that on at least two occasions and for quite a number of years Bell was instructing me to do wrong.....or I was wrong....or the DOM was wrong.....or somebody was wrong....someplace.

[ray]

When you install bubble windows on a 206, the accompanying STC will give you a limitation.

This must be posted and observed by the pilot.

 

Quick release pins on doors. I remove every one I see. The diameter is just slightly smaller than the AN123-10A bolt you're supposed to use, and it thrashes the hinges.

 

I use rope rather than duct tape to secure items to skids.

 

100% is the max torque allowed.

If the wind shifts and you get a transient over 100, you have time to compensate.

 

Density charts....pilot ####.

[RDM]

CAP, as always well said!

 

You OLD bugger.

[Phil Croucher]

Both doors should be off on either side of an Astar, although I do believe some ships have permission to have the forward door off. It's in the limitations section.

 

Gotta run....

 

Phil

[WTF_was_that]

206 bubble windows. The aeronautical kind. on the back doors. 110mph VNE. that little sticker is hidden out of sight. Also listed in flight manual, way, way in the back.... Even with high gear a cargo hook, mirror, bear paws. Most ships have no trouble doing 110.

 

The question is: Why the restriction. That is more of a industry wide suggestion